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mobiusclimber

Active Member
Let me make this simple for you: if you support children being in cages then you support child abuse, and you are in the wrong forums. Don't be a tard defender. "But they're illegal," "But Obama," and "Buttery Males" are all excuses, and not very convincing ones. 1) We don't treat criminals the way we're treating children; 2) Obama didn't basically make it a felony to enter this country illegally, and children were not separated from parents on a 1-to-1 basis, but only under certain extreme circumstances; 3) Hillary Clinton isn't president, even tho she won the popular vote.
 

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mobiusclimber

Active Member
Here's what I consider to be criminal:

HSBC execs laundered money for drug cartels, and then got a slap on the wrist in the form of a fine. No jail time for the billionaires who prop up the drug cartels by laundering money for them.

There's no law making gun running illegal. You can load up on guns, drive down past the border, and then sell those guns to drug cartels. The only crime is in falsify the customs form when crossing the border!

Drug laws in the US still treat people with a disease as tho they were criminals. This in turn fuels the drug cartels. We are responsible for the violence - from buying the drugs, to selling the criminals guns, to laundering their blood money for them.

Furthermore, our policy of ignoring global warming is contributing to poor crop production. Cows aren't producing milk in the same volume, our plants aren't growing at the same rate, and we have way more pests eating crops than ever before; all of which has been linked to global warming.

So the "crisis at the border" is entirely man-made and WE are responsible. I think the way we're treating these immigrants and refugees is criminal to begin with, but at the end of the day, we are the ones creating the problems in South America that these people are fleeing from!
 

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DIAFplease

New phone, who dis?
Bold Member!
I saw a picture yesterday, I won't post it because some stick up the ass will just delete it anyway, it was of two women side by side, gardening. One was of a detainee in an immigrant detention center and the other was a nazi propaganda photo of a jewish woman in a concentration camp. I mean, if it walks like a duck?
 

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CentreAussie

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
I saw a picture yesterday, I won't post it because some stick up the ass will just delete it anyway, it was of two women side by side, gardening. One was of a detainee in an immigrant detention center and the other was a nazi propaganda photo of a jewish woman in a concentration camp. I mean, if it walks like a duck?
I saw a picture, it was a guy swinging a golf club on the moon. I played golf last week. Does that mean I've been to the moon?

Here's what I consider to be criminal:

HSBC execs laundered money for drug cartels, and then got a slap on the wrist in the form of a fine. No jail time for the billionaires who prop up the drug cartels by laundering money for them.

There's no law making gun running illegal. You can load up on guns, drive down past the border, and then sell those guns to drug cartels. The only crime is in falsify the customs form when crossing the border!

Drug laws in the US still treat people with a disease as tho they were criminals. This in turn fuels the drug cartels. We are responsible for the violence - from buying the drugs, to selling the criminals guns, to laundering their blood money for them.

Furthermore, our policy of ignoring global warming is contributing to poor crop production. Cows aren't producing milk in the same volume, our plants aren't growing at the same rate, and we have way more pests eating crops than ever before; all of which has been linked to global warming.

So the "crisis at the border" is entirely man-made and WE are responsible. I think the way we're treating these immigrants and refugees is criminal to begin with, but at the end of the day, we are the ones creating the problems in South America that these people are fleeing from!
I wholeheartedly agree with your first few paragraphs. Fundamentally US demand for drugs is what led to Mexico becoming a cartel dominated narco-state. But it wasn't the only factor. The comparatively low GDP of Mexico combined with a laissez-faire attitude toward kick-backs and corruption typical of South American countries played a pivotal role. But HSBC is not an American company, it's a British multi-national. The US accounts for around 15% of global carbon emissions (China is around 30%).

I think you are correct about the guns, but by your own logic Britain and China should be accepting far more South American illegals than the USA. And China should be accepting refugees from the US.

I'm personally of the opinion that South American countries are shit-holes because of decades of corrupt, socialist governance, not climate change and money laundering bankers...
 
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Alf

Keeper of the Dowager Tabby
Staff member
There's no law making gun running illegal. You can load up on guns, drive down past the border, and then sell those guns to drug cartels. The only crime is in falsify the customs form when crossing the border!
I would suggest you look up ITAR. It deals with exporting munitions. EAR may be of some interest too; it deals with exporting dual-use technologies, usable both for commercial and military purposes.

--Al
 

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Sudonim

Trusted Member
What I think every single american in this thread forgets is that you are all immigrants. Unless you're sporting native american blood(I know a few of you do)..you are no different than any of the people sitting in those detention centers. The only real difference is that when your grandpappy or whatever came over..they werent held in a cage for months on end.

Do you really think your ancestors werent fleeing for criminal and economical reasons? They were..

Mine mine mine! We need to take care of our people first. Which people would that be exactly? I mean its not like you guys are taking care of the original inhabitants of the lands you took by force. America without immigrants would be a very different place than what you know now.

Edit: Everyone talks of veterans as if all your veterans are born on american soil. A lot of them are not. My best friend is Romanian. Been living in the states since he was 12. They fled Romania and sought asylum because of the war and being starved, no different than these people. He's been in the army protecting "americans" and their freedoms for 12 years now. He's not alone in circumstances. A good chunk of the people that end up doing the long term stints with american defense agencies are in fact born in other countries and asylum seekers. They put their lives on the line to defend yours...
 
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CentreAussie

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
What I think every single american in this thread forgets is that you are all immigrants. Unless you're sporting native american blood(I know a few of you do)..you are no different than any of the people sitting in those detention centers. The only real difference is that when your grandpappy or whatever came over..they werent held in a cage for months on end.

Do you really think your ancestors werent fleeing for criminal and economical reasons? They were..

Mine mine mine! We need to take care of our people first. Which people would that be exactly? I mean its not like you guys are taking care of the original inhabitants of the lands you took by force. America without immigrants would be a very different place than what you know now.
So what's your solution? Open borders?

Illegal aliens are not legal migrants. Making all illegals legal means open borders. Being poor doesn't make you a refugee, being born in a crime-ridden shit hole doesn't make you a refugee. Neither qualify you for asylum. That's international law.

Every country is a nation of migrants. Should we just abolish every national boundary on Earth and declare a free for all?

And what happened in the past really doesn't mean shit. None of us are accountable for the sins of the father.
 
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Sudonim

Trusted Member
So what's your solution? Open borders?

Illegal aliens are not legal migrants. Making all illegals legal means open borders. Being poor doesn't make you a refugee, being born in a crime-ridden shit hole doesn't make you a refugee. Neither qualify you for asylum. That's international law.

Every country is a nation of migrants. Should we just abolish every national boundary on Earth and declare a free for all?

And what happened in the past really doesn't mean shit. None of us are accountable for the sins of the father.
There is no easy answer to it. Never has been, never will be. Looking down your nose at others attempting to make a better life for themselves and their families while using the guise of "we need to look after our own people" is just asinine. Mistreating other people is never acceptable.

Not every country is a nation of immigrants. Far from it. America had plenty of its own people until foreigners murdered them off. Same with Australia. List could go on and on. Most EU countries while having immigrants, can say that they arent immigrant countries. In the EU you can literally move to any other EU country without anyone batting an eyelash. Borders are still protected.

These are humans. Not aliens. Humans. They bleed red the same as you or I. They feel pain and discomfort the same. Turning a blind eye to other peoples plights is not the way to solve anything. Making their plight even worse by confining people in conditions you wouldnt even keep a dog in only goes to make that problem worse. You cannot meet in the middle or compromise or find a suitable solution to something if you sweep it under the rug.

Legit if the person isnt a good fit for being an american citizen, turn them away. Dont keep them in a cage in sub par conditions, separated from their children, eating rotten food for months on end. What happens in those camps and the treatment that is being given absolutely falls onto the american people. No different than the Japanese interment camps and what happened in them was on the american people. You cant even deny the link between them when you take into account they are currently lobbying to use the same interment camps they used for the Japanese to house the children they are removing from the asylum seekers.

Your soil, your people mistreating others. Your crimes to pay consequences for. The stuff that has been happening at these camps has been condemned at large by the international community and there have been american and international laws that have been broken in the care of these people. Even if you are against immigration..there is no justifying whats going on at these camps

No people should not be held accountable for the sins of their fathers but to forget the past and where you come from is far more dangerous than an open border ever would be.
 

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DIAFplease

New phone, who dis?
Bold Member!
Of course it was dumb. I made a facetious example using your exact line of logic, to illustrate how idiotic your post was. I didn't think it needed an explicit explanation but there it is, just for you.
So, Nazi propaganda is the same as you looking at a picture of some dude golfing now? Cool.

1563974653371-png.20781


1563974775623-png.20782


The final solution wasn't enacted until 1941. Camps were initially detention centers, fyi. You are just the absolute worst. It's gross.
Post automatically merged:

1563976264634-png.20783


Let's not forget this lovely piece of propaganda from the Japanese internment camps.
 
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Sudonim

Trusted Member
We dont even need to be making nazi connections to any of the camps. America is no stranger to concentration camps. Its been condoned by the american government for almost 200 years now. Ironically the first camp came to be because in 1896 america didnt like cuba having concentration camps, they went to war and by 1901 americans had their own camps up. Sometimes shitty behaviour is spawned from the best intentions.

The global meaning of what makes something a concentration camp is literally "mass detention without trial". It has nothing to do with deaths or mistreatment, although those things generally go hand in hand.
 

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Sue sue

Take 6
Bold Member!
They made the choice to be there when they don’t follow the process to enter legally. To equate them the Nazi concentration is irresponsible. People are not being starved, performing hard labor or being gassed. Horrible scientific experiments are not performed on detainees. Lamp shades made with human skin are not being produced.

The camps that have been established for migrants moving into the United States and requesting asylum certainly resemble the traditional concept of concentration camps—they are fixed points with a large number of inhabitants that are established to allow the government to maintain a watchful eye over the residents. That said, when the term “concentration camp” is used, it often implies that the individuals within said camp are placed there due to being members of a specific, identifiable group on the basis of race or religion, rather than on the basis of activity. The inhabitants of the current camp system are in the United States because they voluntarily chose to cross the border and seek asylum, not because they are of Latino heritage. That is not to suggest that the conditions in the camp are acceptable, or that the United States government should be in the business of creating such camps. However, unlike the traditional inhabitants of concentration camps, the current residents of the border camps have an inherent ability to leave the camp system, if they also consent to leave the United States—something that does not normally fit the traditional concept of concentration camps.
 
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FrayedKnot

Cuz ima prostitute LMAO
There is no easy answer to it. Never has been, never will be. Looking down your nose at others attempting to make a better life for themselves and their families while using the guise of "we need to look after our own people" is just asinine. Mistreating other people is never acceptable.

Not every country is a nation of immigrants. Far from it. America had plenty of its own people until foreigners murdered them off. Same with Australia. List could go on and on. Most EU countries while having immigrants, can say that they arent immigrant countries. In the EU you can literally move to any other EU country without anyone batting an eyelash. Borders are still protected.

These are humans. Not aliens. Humans. They bleed red the same as you or I. They feel pain and discomfort the same. Turning a blind eye to other peoples plights is not the way to solve anything. Making their plight even worse by confining people in conditions you wouldnt even keep a dog in only goes to make that problem worse. You cannot meet in the middle or compromise or find a suitable solution to something if you sweep it under the rug.

Legit if the person isnt a good fit for being an american citizen, turn them away. Dont keep them in a cage in sub par conditions, separated from their children, eating rotten food for months on end. What happens in those camps and the treatment that is being given absolutely falls onto the american people. No different than the Japanese interment camps and what happened in them was on the american people. You cant even deny the link between them when you take into account they are currently lobbying to use the same interment camps they used for the Japanese to house the children they are removing from the asylum seekers.

Your soil, your people mistreating others. Your crimes to pay consequences for. The stuff that has been happening at these camps has been condemned at large by the international community and there have been american and international laws that have been broken in the care of these people. Even if you are against immigration..there is no justifying whats going on at these camps

No people should not be held accountable for the sins of their fathers but to forget the past and where you come from is far more dangerous than an open border ever would be.
You just won the internet. Great post!
 

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CentreAussie

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
There is no easy answer to it. Never has been, never will be. Looking down your nose at others attempting to make a better life for themselves and their families while using the guise of "we need to look after our own people" is just asinine. Mistreating other people is never acceptable.

Not every country is a nation of immigrants. Far from it. America had plenty of its own people until foreigners murdered them off. Same with Australia. List could go on and on. Most EU countries while having immigrants, can say that they arent immigrant countries. In the EU you can literally move to any other EU country without anyone batting an eyelash. Borders are still protected.

These are humans. Not aliens. Humans. They bleed red the same as you or I. They feel pain and discomfort the same. Turning a blind eye to other peoples plights is not the way to solve anything. Making their plight even worse by confining people in conditions you wouldnt even keep a dog in only goes to make that problem worse. You cannot meet in the middle or compromise or find a suitable solution to something if you sweep it under the rug.

Legit if the person isnt a good fit for being an american citizen, turn them away. Dont keep them in a cage in sub par conditions, separated from their children, eating rotten food for months on end. What happens in those camps and the treatment that is being given absolutely falls onto the american people. No different than the Japanese interment camps and what happened in them was on the american people. You cant even deny the link between them when you take into account they are currently lobbying to use the same interment camps they used for the Japanese to house the children they are removing from the asylum seekers.

Your soil, your people mistreating others. Your crimes to pay consequences for. The stuff that has been happening at these camps has been condemned at large by the international community and there have been american and international laws that have been broken in the care of these people. Even if you are against immigration..there is no justifying whats going on at these camps

No people should not be held accountable for the sins of their fathers but to forget the past and where you come from is far more dangerous than an open border ever would be.
There is an easy solution. Secure the border, prevent illegal aliens from ever setting foot on US soil.

All countries are nations of migrants. Do you think that native Americans didn't at one point immigrate? Humans all emigrated from Africa. Be it 200 years or 20,000 years the past is the past and should have no impact on current day law and policy.

Illegal alien, as far as I'm aware is the correct legal term. They are humans as well, two things can be true at the same time.

They are not asylum seekers. As I've said 435 times now, being poor does not make you a legitimate refugee.

Being born in a poor, crime-ridden shit hole doesn't give you the right to march into a country of your preference and demand special treatment. US citizens break the law and they go to jail. Illegals break the law and they go into detention centers. That's real equality. If you want to tell me how inhumane it is to lock up illegals, explain to me how it is inhumane to jail rapists and killers.
 
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Satanica

Veteran Member
Bold Member!
The U.S. won’t be vaccinating migrant families in holding centers ahead of this year’s flu season, despite calls from doctors to boost efforts to fight the infection that’s killed at least three children at detention facilities in the past year.

“In general, due to the short-term nature of CBP holding and the complexities of operating vaccination programs, neither CBP nor its medical contractors administer vaccinations to those in our custody,” a Customs and Border Protection spokeswoman said in an emailed statement.


At least three children who were held in detention centers after crossing into the U.S. from Mexico have died in recent months, in part, from the flu, according to a letter to Reps. Rosa DeLauro, D-Conn., and Lucille Roybal-Allard, D-Calif., from several doctors urging Congress to investigate health conditions at the centers.

The U.S. had previously gone almost a decade without any children dying while under U.S. immigration custody.
[....]
They said the U.S. death rate in children from the flu is about one in 600,000. So far, three children have died out of 200,000 people held at detention facilities along the border, they wrote.

“When I learned that multiple children had died in detention from potentially preventable causes, it truly disturbed me,” Winickoff said. “The country needs urgent answers to that question so that children stop dying in detention.”


Winickoff said that current holding conditions, like being placed in close proximity to other immigrants, make it easy to spread infectious diseases from person to person. He added that contracting the flu weakens a child’s immune system, making it harder to fight off other illnesses.

“A child might start out with flu but then die of another infection,” he added.

If conditions don’t improve, Dr. Julie Linton, chair of the American Academy of Pediatrics Council on Immigrant Child and Family Health, said more children will needlessly die.

“There’s a number of things that we can do to prevent deaths and infection. Those do not include holding children in cage-like facilities and warehouses altogether,” Linton said.

Children come into holding centers with a sense of resilience, Linton said, and potentially stronger immune systems. But the stress from being held against their will can cause immune systems to tank, she said.

That, paired with unsanitary conditions, such as open toilets and “insufficient supplies” to wash hands, is a breeding ground for infection, Linton added.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention also recommends annual flu shots for everyone over 6 months old in the U.S.
[....]
“Flu deaths are particularly tragic in my opinion because they are almost always preventable with good public health measures,” Winickoff said.

When asked about health-care access for people in custody, a CBP spokesperson said there’s been a “dramatic increase” in medical personnel working along the southern border. CBP currently engages about 200 medical personnel, compared to the 20 personnel a year ago.

“Medical personnel on site are available 24/7 to provide medical diagnosis and treatment, address infectious disease issues, and coordinate referral to and follow up from local health system/emergency rooms,” the spokeswoman said.

Migrants who “require vaccination” are referred to local health systems where they “may receive vaccinations ... if determined necessary,” she said.

Linton acknowledged the government was employing more pediatricians, but said more legislation needs to be passed to increase care and conditions.

“When you’re border patrol, whose responsibility is law enforcement, and giving them the responsibility of medical care, that’s a complicated mission,” Linton said. “It’s critical to speak up as doctors.”
 

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