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ewitsadriane
Member
Interestingly enough, the US is also considered one of the rape capitals in the world, and yet we're still trying to pick this scenario apart to find fault in the decisions she made because she's an anti-rape advocate. Would this thread be different had she not been one? She's still human, after all. The culture may be different there, but rape is rape. So unless you were born and raised in South Africa and know first hand what it's like there for women, I can't agree.
SqueezeBoxx
Active Member
Today's lesson....
Taking a shower with a drunk man that is making advances towards you may not be a good plan.
Taking a shower with a drunk man that is making advances towards you may not be a good plan.
ewitsadriane
Member
Wow. And Here I am sitting next to a South African at work who says the complete opposite. 
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ewitsadriane
Member
Totes messed that up but I meant to quote you, Buffettgirl.
Maybe I should get back to work..
ScribbleMuse
Constant Lurker & Sporadic Mass Poster
I don't know really how I feel about this. Normally, the word "rape" is an auto response trigger for me to doggedly defend anyone, regardless of gender or circumstance, who is even implied to be at blame, because it's a really shitty thing.
HOWEVER, after an enlightening conversation with my favorite brother in law over Christmas, I'm now rethinking that reflex.
We were talking about general domestic abuse against women (though technically about any adult in a situation of being abused). I stated my usual lack of sympathy in regard to a particular case of emotional abuse, and he stated that I was basically victim-blaming, and it stopped me short. Again, I feel victim blaming is a shitty thing.
Still, I must stand by my comments then and now am rethinking my reflex sympathy reflex in other ways as well. In basic terms, victims are victims and to attach any kind of "blame" is to further victimize them. Still, at what point is it at least PARTIALLY true to state that a victim who chooses to undergo abuse becomes responsible for that abuse? An adult can leave. An adult can make decisions that will reverse their situation, so to continue to remain under abuse is in itself a conscious decision.
That doesn't absolve the one who is abusing, or in this case, raping. Instead, it focuses on the fact that no situation is truly black and white and easily determined from more than one point of view. No rapist should be excused and in a perfect world, of COURSE the rape intent would be eradicated in some way. However, there is a definite correlation between being mauled by lions when one walks into an enclosed area covered in raw steaks and trying to pet the cute kitty cat lion.
HOWEVER, after an enlightening conversation with my favorite brother in law over Christmas, I'm now rethinking that reflex.
We were talking about general domestic abuse against women (though technically about any adult in a situation of being abused). I stated my usual lack of sympathy in regard to a particular case of emotional abuse, and he stated that I was basically victim-blaming, and it stopped me short. Again, I feel victim blaming is a shitty thing.
Still, I must stand by my comments then and now am rethinking my reflex sympathy reflex in other ways as well. In basic terms, victims are victims and to attach any kind of "blame" is to further victimize them. Still, at what point is it at least PARTIALLY true to state that a victim who chooses to undergo abuse becomes responsible for that abuse? An adult can leave. An adult can make decisions that will reverse their situation, so to continue to remain under abuse is in itself a conscious decision.
That doesn't absolve the one who is abusing, or in this case, raping. Instead, it focuses on the fact that no situation is truly black and white and easily determined from more than one point of view. No rapist should be excused and in a perfect world, of COURSE the rape intent would be eradicated in some way. However, there is a definite correlation between being mauled by lions when one walks into an enclosed area covered in raw steaks and trying to pet the cute kitty cat lion.
Athena
Buzzkill.
I really hope people are getting their terminology mixed up, but I fear that is not true.
She does not deserve the blame. The blame rests SOLELY on the male who chose to take advantage. By putting even an ounce of blame on her, you are asserting that a man doesn't have the ability to control himself, and that's a load of shit.
Now, can you put yourself in a position to be taken advantage of, but still avoid that blame? YES. In a just world, a woman would never be able to say, "Hey, I bet, if I agree to shower with this guy, I'm going to get raped." That's the fucked up part. Not that she would knowingly subject herself to that possibility, but that she even COULD subject herself to that possibility. And, yeah, I do think she intentionally subjected herself. But she shouldn't have been able to.
Odds are good that we've all been around someone who has made the hair on the back of our neck stand up. Someone we feel inclined to protect ourselves around. If we fail to do so, unintentionally or not, and something bad happens, that blame still falls squarely on the person committing the crime. It is a misguided brain that translates a failure to protect oneself to deserving to be victimized.
She does not deserve the blame. The blame rests SOLELY on the male who chose to take advantage. By putting even an ounce of blame on her, you are asserting that a man doesn't have the ability to control himself, and that's a load of shit.
Now, can you put yourself in a position to be taken advantage of, but still avoid that blame? YES. In a just world, a woman would never be able to say, "Hey, I bet, if I agree to shower with this guy, I'm going to get raped." That's the fucked up part. Not that she would knowingly subject herself to that possibility, but that she even COULD subject herself to that possibility. And, yeah, I do think she intentionally subjected herself. But she shouldn't have been able to.
Odds are good that we've all been around someone who has made the hair on the back of our neck stand up. Someone we feel inclined to protect ourselves around. If we fail to do so, unintentionally or not, and something bad happens, that blame still falls squarely on the person committing the crime. It is a misguided brain that translates a failure to protect oneself to deserving to be victimized.
Ponipetary
8-bit Member
Especially if the maulee is a wildlife educator with a particular understanding of the dangers inherent to the situation. Great analogy.
ScribbleMuse
Constant Lurker & Sporadic Mass Poster
You are right, and thanks for giving me the elusive point of focus I've been searching for in my wandering thoughts. It's really the whole phrase of "victim blaming." As much as I tend to enjoy the theoretical questions and debates I have with myself and others if they tolerate abstract thought and conversation, I really wish that everything in the world was actually simple to grade and then give out the winning/losing determination, but it's not that simple. Instead maybe it's best and most accurate to consider points of responsibility and to accept that in most cases, there can be no "winners" or losers, but instead only individual responsibility.
In this case, I do feel that the woman has some responsibility for this whole situation. It just sounds strange, so I am going on my understanding of what information is available and that I've read--she had stated that she felt uncomfortable from the start, and still spoke of her ongoing involvement in the activities that escalated to a rape. That is not at all judging based on her behavior of live tweeting the details, or seeming to be one of the extreme devotees of a cause to the degree of forcing or lying her own case to force the issue into social sight. That's something we can debate forever, and while we can say it's in bad taste, or that it shows strength, in the end, the behavior really does not affect the facts of the rape itself.
The rapist has his own responsibility, and if I were to personally choose which person is the "most" guilty, I'd say him for sure. Still, if one would justly say there are no actual degrees of difference in whether or not a person is right or wrong, they both are.
BTW, an extreme example of how horrifying victims can be treated is covered in the documentary "India's Daughter" streaming right now on Netflix. I watched it the other day and was left staggered in actual sorrow and rage after hearing the justification that the group of torture-murderers were using, and that their lawyers were actually using without shame or consideration. I am still speechless. I knew of the story behind the horrible monsters and what they did to a beautiful woman in Delhi, but did not really understand the full extent of the entire society mindset. Blech.
Jake88
SARCASTIC SLUT
Thanks beautiful! You could of just said "You are 100 percent right Jake, and next time I'll refrain from stooping to your level and victim blaming. You are a great friend, but a poor mentor."
I think they should only add a TL;DR rating if they also add a BS;DB rating.
Apparently that person is me around here lol.
Sevens My Charm
Ruler of Minions.. and Degenerates..
@Buffettgirl
I am at a loss. Rape capital. Aids capital. Anti-rape advocate - senseless actions. Narcissistic photos. Uugghh.
Jake88
SARCASTIC SLUT
Bullshit;Don't Believe. It was a joke. I don't even know what verbose means. I can only assume it is somebody like me that just likes to hear themselves talk though. Athena has also credited me many times for being the reason she no longer gets called verbose.
Lol I wasn't mad at you. It really wasn't that long either. It was a double post merged with an even lengthier one. Someone alluded to the fact I was sick in the head with some deep rooted hate or blame towards women and that I could possibly be a rapist myself. LOL. At least that was what I drew from it. I had to defend my honor Nell! People sullying my good name around here will NOT be tolerated. It took many words. I apologize. I love you Nell! Who loves you? Jakey does!
Knox
Queen of the Cunts
I think I have a crush on @Athena now. I read through everything, getting ready to post my views and opinions, and there she is, always a post or two ahead of me. But, yeah, everything she said. And @Jake88, I'm trying to decide if I think you're wrong on everything, or right on a lot. And yes, verbose means you talk, a lot!
Jake88
SARCASTIC SLUT
I was most definitely wrong to word certain things the way I did. She is definitely still a victim of rape. Regardless of whether or not she had ulterior motives, he is still a rapist and I should of made those feelings a lot more clear initially.
Athena
Buzzkill.
It a pretty muddy thing to consider, the intersection between blame, fault and responsibility. In fact, those words are pretty much all used in each others' definitions, so there's no real distinction, linguistically, anyway. The problem is that we are conditioned to apply bad logic. A failure in my responsibility to protect myself does not detract from someone else's responsibility to not victimize me.
Here's how we tend to look at it, and it sounds to me like the precise point at which you are encountering philosophical difficulty. In the insurance industry, there's a concept called "comparative liability". That means we're dealing with a total sum of 100% responsibility, and each party may contribute a percentage of that responsibility. Say there's a car accident because someone takes a left-hand turn across oncoming traffic, but the oncoming vehicle is speeding. The person who took the turn is at the most fault, maybe 80%. But the person speeding contributes some fault, because had they not been speeding, the collision wouldn't have occurred.
That's not how human interaction works, though. I am 100% responsible for my well-being, and the people I encounter are 100% responsible for not victimizing me. The total sum would be 200%, except that those percentages don't relate to one another at all. If I, either intentionally or due to naivete, fail to mind my own well-being, it detracts from my total, and my total alone. A dude I'm with is still 100% responsible for not raping me. I can completely and totally neglect my duty to protect myself, but it doesn't make him any less responsible for not raping me.
This is what makes victim-blaming a tricky thing. Really, the mechanism turns from advice to victim-blaming only depending on the point at which it's offered. Before anyone gets raped, there's nothing wrong with telling a woman not to drink to excess around strange men, for example. That's just good advice. After a women gets raped, however, it is not appropriate to say, "Well, you shouldn't have drank to excess around a strange man." Yeah, she's figured that out, and to actively point that out after the fact only serves to further victimize her.
So, just to tie that mess of words back into some concise point, yes, a woman has a responsibility to herself, but it is no more instructive to point that out than it ever is to offer someone a big, fat, "I told you so!" It's self-serving. She's learned her lesson, people reading her story are detracting the appropriate lessons, and we're just being mouth flappy assholes when we feel the need to verbally point out to her or anyone else that there is blame there.
That said, we are all free to be mouth flappy assholes here. It's kinda what this place is about.
colliefreak
Active Member
When will we get to the point when the only people held accountable for rapes are the ones who commit them? She consented to a shower, not this.
Seven
Vert da ferk?!
I mean..Smith's defense psychiatrist did diagnose her with Dependent Personality Disorder & Depression but that's apples & oranges as far as my comparison goes.
My point was more about Amber reasoning that taking the shower with the potentially rapey dude was worth the risk because she'd get a hot shower instead of the cold one from her own abode. Andrea Yates reasoned (whether it's rational or not isn't the point. To her, it was rational.) that killing her children was worth the *risk because they'd be in Heaven instead of the likelihood of them going to Hell, had they continued to live.
*Andrea was fully aware that the risk involved serious consequences involving her husband, mother-in-law, all the authorities & affiliates...especially since she was hospitalized & dealt with repercussions from merely discussing her thoughts involving killing the children, prior. Andrea had one hour from the time her husband left til the time her MIL came to help her with the children at the house. If she was "not capable of rational thought", then she would've drowned the children regardless of whether her husband/MIL was home or not.
Seven
Vert da ferk?!
Believe me, I'm all too familiar with mental illness, psychosis, etc. I 100% feel for Andrea Yates as well. Certainly didn't mean to come across as not having empathy for those suffering from MI. Even this Amber Amour- I feel for her. I don't believe her as far as I can throw her but I do hope she seeks the help she needs.
TokioFreak
Active Member
Hello, everyone! I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has shown me support. I would've done it sooner, but whatever the new forum update is, it has decided that it doesn't want to work on my phone anymore without being extremely stupid, and my phone is my primary Internet.
I've also skimmed the other comments on this thread. I've done a lot of soul searching, and some of you may not agree with what I have to say.
People don't deserve to get robbed just because they have expensive, nice things. However, if you have valuables in your home, you have a duty to protect them. If someone flaunts their valuables on social media, makes sure everyone around them knows where they keep their diamond jewelry, leaves the front door unlocked, then comes home to find their shit gone, they are still victims. The robber is responsible for the crime, but we can all agree that the homeowners failed to take responsibility for their personal safety.
Rape, although obviously a different type of crime, is similar. No woman (or man for that matter) deserves rape, under any circumstances. I think shaming a woman for just living her life. People should feel free to dress how they want without fear of being harassed. People should be allowed to have fun and dance at clubs and parties, within reason. But you know what? You still have to take responsibility for your personal safety. Obviously the rapist is responsible for his crimes, and no one should ever say otherwise. *prepare to be offended* But to say that bears no responsibility is rediculous. You have a responsibility to take precautions and protect yourself. Want to go dancing and drink? Make sure you have a sober, reliable friend with you or that you're keeping in contact with. Don't drink to the point that you're passing out. And most of all, don't go to secluded places with people you barely know, especially after implying you'll perform sexual favors. I want to be clear that all victims are victims and aren't responsible for the act itself, but are responsible for protecting themselves. I guess that's as clear as mud. After years if reading this site, I'm well aware that bad things happen to people, even if they are cautious and try to protect themselves. But just because something bad can happen anyway is no reason to just roll the dice with personal safety.
I don't know where you all are from, but America is now the home of the offended. You can't sneeze or breath wrong because someone's offended. Rape culture is becoming what I call an offense trend. People are avidly calling out examples of people endorsing rape culture. For the most part, as former victim myself, I find this movement positive and wonderful. It's about time that boys are taught that girls are not objects from an early age. Like, everything else though, people are now so grossly over offended. At my last job, I worked with a lady who was retired, but worked part time. The sweetest lady in the whole world. I also worked with dumbass teenagers and college kids. Anyway, a coworker's little girl was at the restaurant waiting for her mom's shift to end. She and her dad were at the counter chatting with my coworkers and I because it was slow. The older woman asked the little girl what was wrong. She said that some boy at daycare made fun of her hair or some shit. The older woman told her that sometimes people are mean because they like us and aren't sure how to be our friend. A grandmotherly response. I spent the rest of the afternoon hearing how disgusted the teen and college girls were that the older woman would tell the child something endorsing rape cultre. It's rape culture to tell someone that violence means they like you. One of them threatened to go to the restaurant owners about the woman's behavior. I personally wanted to place them in the deep fryer.
Anyway, people are now so worried about endorsing rape culture and victim shaming that we can't have a conversation about prevention. Saying thay sexual assault isn't the victim's fault is a lot different than saying you can do whatever you want, no matter how dangerous or how it disregards your safety and be free of any possible consequences. Being afraid to say that being raped is possible consequence of engaging in such reckless behavior is only creating more victims.
People can be the victim of violent crime even if they do everything by the book, but taking an active role in keeping yourself safe reduces your chances. I'd would much rather be a "victim shamer" by telling my nieces and other women I care about that sexual assault is a likely outcome if they behave recklessly than allow them to become victims. Going to a hotel room with an intoxicated man that you barely know, especially after you agreed to a sexual situation with him is reckless. Getting so drunk or fucked up that you are unaware of your surroundings is reckless. At the end of the day, if telling someone that doing such stupid things can lead to rape or worse makes me victim shamer or an endorser of rape culture, then so be it. I never want someone to live through the things I did. We shouldn't be so afraid of victim shaming that we create more victims. This woman makes me so angry because she is mocking other victims, people who tried to keep themselves safe. She's a freaking rape advocate. She knew they weren't going to that room to play Monopoly. Then she wants to act like she's such an innocent. It makes me sick. Like I've said, ultimately she is a victim and her rapist is responsible for his actions. Rape strips you of your humanity and I personally feel is worse than death. No one deserves that, but I feel that she's using it for some sick ass little instagram attention whore game. And I feel she's scum.
Thanks for reading my novel. The other comments just for me fired up. And I prefer the poo piles rather than the wtf faces when you all express your outrage over my opibions.
I've also skimmed the other comments on this thread. I've done a lot of soul searching, and some of you may not agree with what I have to say.
People don't deserve to get robbed just because they have expensive, nice things. However, if you have valuables in your home, you have a duty to protect them. If someone flaunts their valuables on social media, makes sure everyone around them knows where they keep their diamond jewelry, leaves the front door unlocked, then comes home to find their shit gone, they are still victims. The robber is responsible for the crime, but we can all agree that the homeowners failed to take responsibility for their personal safety.
Rape, although obviously a different type of crime, is similar. No woman (or man for that matter) deserves rape, under any circumstances. I think shaming a woman for just living her life. People should feel free to dress how they want without fear of being harassed. People should be allowed to have fun and dance at clubs and parties, within reason. But you know what? You still have to take responsibility for your personal safety. Obviously the rapist is responsible for his crimes, and no one should ever say otherwise. *prepare to be offended* But to say that bears no responsibility is rediculous. You have a responsibility to take precautions and protect yourself. Want to go dancing and drink? Make sure you have a sober, reliable friend with you or that you're keeping in contact with. Don't drink to the point that you're passing out. And most of all, don't go to secluded places with people you barely know, especially after implying you'll perform sexual favors. I want to be clear that all victims are victims and aren't responsible for the act itself, but are responsible for protecting themselves. I guess that's as clear as mud. After years if reading this site, I'm well aware that bad things happen to people, even if they are cautious and try to protect themselves. But just because something bad can happen anyway is no reason to just roll the dice with personal safety.
I don't know where you all are from, but America is now the home of the offended. You can't sneeze or breath wrong because someone's offended. Rape culture is becoming what I call an offense trend. People are avidly calling out examples of people endorsing rape culture. For the most part, as former victim myself, I find this movement positive and wonderful. It's about time that boys are taught that girls are not objects from an early age. Like, everything else though, people are now so grossly over offended. At my last job, I worked with a lady who was retired, but worked part time. The sweetest lady in the whole world. I also worked with dumbass teenagers and college kids. Anyway, a coworker's little girl was at the restaurant waiting for her mom's shift to end. She and her dad were at the counter chatting with my coworkers and I because it was slow. The older woman asked the little girl what was wrong. She said that some boy at daycare made fun of her hair or some shit. The older woman told her that sometimes people are mean because they like us and aren't sure how to be our friend. A grandmotherly response. I spent the rest of the afternoon hearing how disgusted the teen and college girls were that the older woman would tell the child something endorsing rape cultre. It's rape culture to tell someone that violence means they like you. One of them threatened to go to the restaurant owners about the woman's behavior. I personally wanted to place them in the deep fryer.
Anyway, people are now so worried about endorsing rape culture and victim shaming that we can't have a conversation about prevention. Saying thay sexual assault isn't the victim's fault is a lot different than saying you can do whatever you want, no matter how dangerous or how it disregards your safety and be free of any possible consequences. Being afraid to say that being raped is possible consequence of engaging in such reckless behavior is only creating more victims.
People can be the victim of violent crime even if they do everything by the book, but taking an active role in keeping yourself safe reduces your chances. I'd would much rather be a "victim shamer" by telling my nieces and other women I care about that sexual assault is a likely outcome if they behave recklessly than allow them to become victims. Going to a hotel room with an intoxicated man that you barely know, especially after you agreed to a sexual situation with him is reckless. Getting so drunk or fucked up that you are unaware of your surroundings is reckless. At the end of the day, if telling someone that doing such stupid things can lead to rape or worse makes me victim shamer or an endorser of rape culture, then so be it. I never want someone to live through the things I did. We shouldn't be so afraid of victim shaming that we create more victims. This woman makes me so angry because she is mocking other victims, people who tried to keep themselves safe. She's a freaking rape advocate. She knew they weren't going to that room to play Monopoly. Then she wants to act like she's such an innocent. It makes me sick. Like I've said, ultimately she is a victim and her rapist is responsible for his actions. Rape strips you of your humanity and I personally feel is worse than death. No one deserves that, but I feel that she's using it for some sick ass little instagram attention whore game. And I feel she's scum.
Thanks for reading my novel. The other comments just for me fired up. And I prefer the poo piles rather than the wtf faces when you all express your outrage over my opibions.
Muriel Schwenck
Beloved Curmudgeon
I was wondering why this rape had not become an international incident since the first instagram postings of the terrible event. I am sure that was Amber's intent! Her bid for fame seems to be a non event. No one is covering it beyond the first few days.
She would say it is because the media doesn't care, I think it is because she over reached and lost credibility.
She would say it is because the media doesn't care, I think it is because she over reached and lost credibility.
SynthetikBarbi
New Member
I thought of The Life of David Gale too! Lol
Muriel Schwenck
Beloved Curmudgeon
Oh my! The rape activist known formerly known as Amber Amour is now a psychic practitioner. Chakra cleanses $200 for 90 minuts
A brief glance at her instagram shows that her harrowing rape experience had no impact on her posting many MANY self objectifying sexy photos.
https://www.instagram.com/HerisaTakhit/?hl=en
A brief glance at her instagram shows that her harrowing rape experience had no impact on her posting many MANY self objectifying sexy photos.
Prettypink513
Church Member
What a funny-looking, flat booty, slut. She needs a shrink
Sejanus
Veteran Member
Some would say she has a horse face.
I say neigh.
Some would say she has a flat ass.
I agree that's on the level.
Some would say she has low self esteem.
I disgree, show me, cuz I see none.
Some would say she has bad tits.
I say making fun of pimples is mean spirited.
Some would say she is mentally ill.
That's just crazy.
I say neigh.
Some would say she has a flat ass.
I agree that's on the level.
Some would say she has low self esteem.
I disgree, show me, cuz I see none.
Some would say she has bad tits.
I say making fun of pimples is mean spirited.
Some would say she is mentally ill.
That's just crazy.
Good lord shes hideous
