• You must be logged in to see or use the Shoutbox. Besides, if you haven't registered, you really should. It's quick and it will make your life a little better. Trust me. So just register and make yourself at home with like-minded individuals who share either your morbid curiousity or sense of gallows humor.
In most cases, it depends on what the authorities see and hear when they show up. If Kellie appeared rational - even thought she may have been upset - the cops would have no reason to take her in. If someone is saying they are NOT a danger to themselves or others, the cops can't kidnap them unless they see or hear something in that interaction to clue them otherwise. If that wasn't the way it worked, think how easy it would be for a vindictive person to call the cops and tell them you are suicidal and have you carted off.

Anyone who's ever had to call the cops for mentally ill loved ones will have stories were it worked and stories where it didn't. It's a case by case situation and must be accomplished through legal methods.

Here even if they are 12 they have to agree to be committed unless they have committed a crime of course
My ex best friend and her 2 sons all have been diagnosed bipolar and many other things where she always had violent images in her head of killing her kids
and they tried killing each other etc
Her 12 yo at the time was at top of staircase with those old fashioned steel scissors and was threatening to fall down the steps and stab himself
I drove them to hosp to see if they would admit him and his psychiatrist they called said he had to agree to the 72 hour commit or he could go home and he went home

I say ex best friend b/c after years of them stealing from me and many other things I couldnt deal with them anymore
 
NO ONE can waltz in and take your kids for something that "might maybe" happen when there is no proof. You end up under arrest for taking peoples kids... no matter how good your intentions are. And what good is an in-jail grandma to the situation? They authorities would have only returned the child back to the mother. If Kelli wouldn't give her child to someone to care for and was telling others that she was only upset, not suicidal, there isn't much a person can legally do except work with the person to get them to see the need for help.

This family was far from ignoring the situation. They seem to have been doing everything they legally could. This woman had never harmed her child. The family had a plan in place. They had called the cops. They had gone to court. They were instituting more legal actions. They were acting above and beyond the actions of many we see featured here.

This is a tragedy all the way around. I refuse to compound the tragedy for the family with "what ifs", shoulda woulda coulda, or magic mirrors. We can see the oncoming train because of hindsight. The people involved were on the train in real life and seeme to have been doing all they could to stop it. It's a tragedy but not all tragedies can be prevented.
Did you know that as I typed my response, I had a feeling you'd come back at me for my stance. I don't want to argue over this. The law is what it is and I'm not much concerned about that part of it. I am saying that the mother and Gavin's father could have very easily saved Gavin. She (Kelli)didn't want him. She was asking them to take him from her. All they had to do was say, "Yep, I'll be there in _____ mins." I would have gone in my pajamas if I thought my daughter was stressed out and needed a break whether she had cried "wolf" a million times. You don't think it could have been prevented...I do. There's nothing wrong with our differing opinions. The sad reality is that no matter how either one of us feels, it doesn't change the tragic fact that Gavin is gone and his mother killed herself. I'm done commenting on this one.
 
Most honestly I have worried about one of my sisters in terms of falling way to suicidal thoughts. She hasn't expressed anything like that since becoming a mother (reluctantly), but still, I'm atop of how she's doing and coping. IF there were a chance, even a remote one she'd do something like this, I'd seriously fly my ass over and get my nephew. I'd probably reap consequences but it might be the ONE thing that would save him.

I hope I never seriously have to face such a thing. My heart goes to all who live in their own personal Hell over this and especially for baby Gavin who had no choice but to die.
 
This should warrant an automatic 5150. If you are considered a threat to yourself or others, you are locked up for 72 hours and given a psych eval. At least, that's the way it is here in CA.
Sorry to disagree, been there done that, it's not a State thing it's county by county and we tried very hard called everyone went everywhere and could not get some one committed that needed to be in that county
Another county told us if we could get the person there they would hold them for 48 hour observation
 
Sorry to disagree, been there done that, it's not a State thing it's county by county and we tried very hard called everyone went everywhere and could not get some one committed that needed to be in that county
Another county told us if we could get the person there they would hold them for 48 hour observation

Yeah, this is completely different from my experiences with my Mom when I was younger (late 80s and early 90s), and my Dad a few years ago. In my experience, if you were considered a threat to yourself or others, you were 5150'd, which meant a 72 hour hold and psych eval. With my mom, there was enough for a involuntary hospitalization. With my dad, they heard it from his mouth, and he'd said that he was super wasted, and had tried to kill himself by drinking even more, but he was in his right mind now, and wasn't suicidal. They committed him anyway.
 
Last edited:
I cannot believe the amount of people that want to blame anyone but Keli for what she did. So different from other threads. Why, cause she was sad? She still murdered her son. If it was that bad how about this. She had a car, obviously. Why didn't she just drop Gavin off with her mom and walk the fuck away? You think she would have chased her down the road yelling "Oh no you don't! Come back and take this brat!" I don't think so. She had options, she choose to not use them, but instead to selfishly take out not only herself, but her child as well. I said it before, I will say it again. It was no ones fault but hers. She failed herself and her son.

Fuck her.
 
Every moment of every day is filled with choices, good ones or bad ones, no matter what you still have choices, even small choices. And Kelli made the wrong bad choice. It was her choice and hers alone, and she did it, she may have been crazy but she was smart enough to tell the cops that she was ok, so she was smart enough to make a better choice, she was NOT out of her mind crazy. Her fault, I'm with [MENTION=405]Nell[/MENTION] fuck her!
 
Fuck her.

Ditto times infinity. I was only talking about my own experiences with 5150s, since others were as well. It is entirely her fault. I think people are speculating as to what they would have done in grandma's position - at least I was. I said I feel awful for grandma, and I do. She'll be punished in her own way for the rest of her life.

Like I said in some earlier post, I hope the selfish bitch (mom) rots in hell.
 
Here's the thing. Yes,the grandmother and the father dropped the ball but you know what? Kelli still had enough presence of mind to lie to the cops when they arrived. She could have given her son to them and be done with it. Instead she lied, then killed her kid then killed herself,hoping to ride the pity party all the way there.
Screw that,the only person that deserves sympathy is Gavin.
 
Last edited:
Ditto times infinity. I was only talking about my own experiences with 5150s, since others were as well. It is entirely her fault. I think people are speculating as to what they would have done in grandma's position - at least I was. I said I feel awful for grandma, and I do. She'll be punished in her own way for the rest of her life.

Like I said in some earlier post, I hope the selfish bitch (mom) rots in hell.

I cannot believe the amount of people that want to blame anyone but Keli for what she did. So different from other threads. Why, cause she was sad? She still murdered her son. If it was that bad how about this. She had a car, obviously. Why didn't she just drop Gavin off with her mom and walk the fuck away? You think she would have chased her down the road yelling "Oh no you don't! Come back and take this brat!" I don't think so. She had options, she choose to not use them, but instead to selfishly take out not only herself, but her child as well. I said it before, I will say it again. It was no ones fault but hers. She failed herself and her son.

Fuck her.

I completely agree with this but in the past I have reaped a lot of crap for saying so.
People are fickle on threads like this. damn fucking fickle.

Here's the thing. Yes,the grandmother and the father dropped the ball but you know what? Kelli still had enough presence of mind to lie to the cops when they arrived. She could have given her son to them and be done with it. Instead she lied, then killed her kid then killer herself,hoping to ride the pity party all the way there.
Screw that,the only person that deserves sympathy is Gavin.

I only was giving insight from Canadian side of it and what I have witnessed
and the only victim here was the baby
He wasnt big enough to fight her off
Couple more years he couldve knocked her on her ass and saved himself but as a baby he was helpless
 
It sounds like, from reading the full article, that NO ONE was aware of the full extent of this woman's mental state... until it was too late. Most of what's been pieced together is 20/20 hindsight and may or may not have changed the outcome here.

A young mother's mental illness leads to shattered lives
Police say now that if they’d known about reports of strife within Kelli Sly’s apartment, they probably would have asked more questions about her mindset, and they would have probed more deeply into whether she posed a threat to her young son.

But no one told the Indianola officers that neighbors had complained of an adult in the apartment screaming and a baby crying deep into the night.

The Warren County Housing Authority, which owns the taxpayer-supported Indian Country Apartments, determined on March 22 that the noise was so disruptive that Sly had to be evicted. Police who went to the apartment hours before Sly killed her son were unaware of that decision, or of the fact that state officials had investigated earlier child-abuse allegations against Sly, 23.
[...]

Two officers responded to the apartment after Sly’s estranged husband and her mother called police on March 24 to report that Sly had threatened suicide, which she’d attempted twice before. The officers found a seemingly stable young mother bathing her 2-year-old son, Gavin.

She seemed upset with her husband, officers noted, but she convinced them she wasn’t suicidal. They observed that the place was spotless and orderly, and they concluded that her family’s fears were unfounded. The officers’ report gives no hint of concern about Gavin’s safety.

Sly’s reasonable demeanor was a facade. Shortly after the officers left, she poisoned Gavin with a large overdose of drugs, including allergy medicine. Then she slashed her wrists with a razor and lay down on a bed with him. After she woke up next to his body the next morning, she got in her car and killed herself by smashing it into a bridge support.

One of the unanswered questions is whether the housing authority notified state child protection officials about the troubling sounds coming from Sly’s apartment, or whether the landlord simply decided to throw the family out.

Steve Scott, executive director of the group Prevent Child Abuse Iowa, said landlords are not legally required to report signs of child abuse. But he said he would hope that a landlord or neighbors would make such a call if they repeatedly heard an adult screaming at a child all night long.
[...]

According to documents obtained by The Des Moines Register, the Iowa Department of Human Services received complaints last fall that Kelli had been abusing Gavin.

The complaints included that Kelli had spanked the boy so hard that a hand print was visible on his buttock the next day; that she threw a bottle at him when he was in his crib; that she screamed profanity at him; and that she used a baby gate to lock him in his room for hours because she didn’t want him messing up the apartment.

A state social worker visited the apartment in September and determined that there was little evidence Kelli had abused Gavin. She denied all allegations of mistreating her son. The social worker saw no unusual marks on the boy, and she wrote that he seemed “happy and healthy … and the bond between the two was apparent.â€￾ The social worker determined the allegations were unfounded, and the report was stamped “confidential.â€￾

The DHS report also notes that Kelli had a tumultuous relationship with her husband, Tim Sly, who spent much of Gavin’s childhood serving with the Iowa National Guard in Afghanistan.
[...]

Kelli had an explosive, unpredictable temper, he said, and many of the fights involved money or her obsessive need for cleanliness. Something as minor as a couple of blades of grass tracked onto the carpet would set her off, he said.

She would yell often and sometimes hit him with her hand or strike him with a door. He says he yelled back but never struck her. She told authorities he did, so she could get full custody of their son, he said.

Tim is a tall, muscular man with a soldier’s share of tattoos. He said authorities always seemed to believe his wife, who was nearly a foot shorter than him and was good at turning on the tears.

“I’d never hit a woman,â€￾ he said. “I could fill a courtroom with people willing to back me up on that.â€￾

Tim left in the summer of 2010 for a year’s deployment to Afghanistan. The couple often used the Internet to fight from 7,000 miles apart. Tim came home last summer and moved in with Kelli, but the marriage was doomed. The couple broke up in August and started divorce proceedings.

He and her mother said Kelli tried to kill herself last November. She sent him pictures of her slashed wrists, and she spent about a week at Mercy Franklin Center, a Des Moines psychiatric facility. She told both of them that she had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but neither knew whether that was true.
[...]

Throughout the turmoil, Tim never thought Kelli would hurt their son, a cheerful little boy who rarely caused trouble. “She was a good mom. She cared about Gavin,â€￾ he said. “I thought that’s what was keeping her together.â€￾

He believes last fall’s DHS investigation was sparked by a complaint from someone in his family. But he doesn’t know whether there was anything to the anonymous allegations that she had mistreated their son. He suspects part of the reason she resisted getting more mental health treatment was that she feared the DHS would try to take away Gavin.

Kelli’s life spiraled downward this spring. She lost a job at a convenience store, reportedly because she was often absent. Then came the eviction notice, the second one she’d received, again citing the noise from the apartment. Sherri Sinclair had hired a lawyer to fend off the first eviction threat, which came in January, but the new one looked like it was going to stick.

Sherri Sinclair said she suggested Kelli and Gavin move in with her, but Kelli became despondent.

“She thought they would end up on the street,â€￾ her mother said.

On Saturday, March 24, Kelli called and texted her mother and husband, saying she saw no reason to live. Both were working that day — Sinclair for a cleaning service in Waukee, and Tim in Missouri with his boss. They were unable to immediately go to Indianola, but they agreed to meet the next morning at Kelli’s apartment, where Tim would watch Gavin and Sinclair would try to persuade Kelli to go in for psychiatric treatment.

In the meantime, they called police and asked that officers check on Kelli. Sinclair said she told police she could come get Gavin in a couple of hours if Kelli needed to go to a hospital right away.

The two officers who responded to the calls noted in their report that Kelli’s home was immaculate. They took that not as a sign of mental illness but of normality.

“Part of the observation was that the apartment was in order. It was clean, it was neat, it didn’t look like anyone was depressed,â€￾ Detective Sgt. Brian Sher said in an interview. “Kelli was actually bathing Gavin, and when you’re bathing someone, you’re planning for the future, you’re planning for bedtime. (There was) no sign of anything bad that was going to happen. The officers asked Kelli a lot of different questions about wanting to hurt herself — and she said no, she was just angry at the time, and she just stated she was not going to hurt herself.â€￾

Police had gone to her apartment last November, after she slashed her wrists. Officers also had interacted with her a few times when she was working at the convenience store. But they didn’t know her well, the sergeant said.

Sher said the officers were unaware of the pending eviction, or of the reasons for it. He said if they’d known about complaints that Kelli screamed at her son, and that the boy cried all night, the officers probably would have looked more deeply into how her mindset might affect him.

“I think it would have led to more questions,â€￾ he said. “If you know someone’s being evicted, or in the process, and you don’t see boxes being boxed up or whatever, it could lead to different questions.â€￾
[...]

The same officers who checked on Kelli that fateful afternoon wound up finding Gavin’s body the next morning. Sher, who went to the murder scene that day, said counselors later helped officers work through their feelings about the case.
Split on whether to require abuse reports

Scott, of Prevent Child Abuse Iowa, said he sympathizes with the police officers, who had insufficient information to decide what to do about Kelli.

“Unfortunately, nobody was playing with all 52 cards,
â€￾ he said.
[...]

Sherri Sinclair and Tim Sly echo many frustrations and observations about Kelli’s behavior, but also share shock that Kelli would turn her rage on her son.

“I just never had any experience that would make me think she would ever harm Gavin,â€￾ Sinclair said. “But I know how she was as a young girl — and there was anger there.â€￾

Sinclair still doubts that Kelli routinely screamed at Gavin all night long. But she said if those complaints were true, the housing authority manager should have called child protection experts.
[...]
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...mother-s-mental-illness-leads-shattered-lives
 
It is so easy to lie about your mental state. I was threatened with involuntary commitment by my doctor once, he made me come back and see him in two days. He said if I was still hyper manic he was going to commit me. When I went in for that next appointment I was afraid to move, kept my tone of voice even and denied any thoughts of harming myself, even though I was lying through my teeth. He had been my doctor for two years and he still bought it. When you have a mental illness, the first thing you learn is how to hide the reality of your situation when you go into self protection mode. Unless they see you go completely off the deep end, most people with a mental illness learn how to fake normal and fool doctors and family all the time.

The only person I blame in this is Kelli, she chose to lie about how she felt, knowing she was having the feelings towards her child. That is one thing I will NEVER lie about, if I ever had any thoughts of harming any of my children my ass would be in the office or calling the cops on myself right then. No excuses.
 
Goddamnit. I wish I hadn't read that he had cried all night. This is too upsetting to me today. I spent a beautiful weekend at home with my 3 year old, coloring, playing in the water, and cherishing my home time with him, for we are usually so busy. Ugh, this has completely wrecked my morning. Which sounds selfish because this little dude is dead. Goddamnit.
 
Somehow I missed this story when it first came out, and part of me really wishes I hadn't clicked on it today. :( It sounds like Kelli was very, very good at manipulating everyone around her and hiding the fact that things were getting worse with her. I feel so terrible for her mother, husband and most especially for Gavin. In my opinion the blame lies with Kelli and Kelli alone, based on the information that's available. Fuck her! She had gads of help being offered and made the choice to not use it. FUCK HER!
 
Back
Top