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ghosttruck

Level 57 Taco Wizard
Staff member


MARCH 14--While most parents kept their offspring in the dark when it came to the illegal steps being taken to rig admission to top colleges, one child of privilege was all in when it came to brazenly cheating her way into school, records show.
Amber Zangrillo, 20, whose father Robert was arrested Tuesday on a federal fraud charge, is the poster child of the nationwide cheating scandal.
Zangrillo’s father, a Miami-based venture capitalist and real estate developer, has been accused of paying $250,000 to illegally get his youngest daughter into USC as a transfer student.
Zangrillo, a debutante who once competed in equestrian events, applied for admission to USC in 2017, but her application “was rejected,” according to a U.S. District Court filing. While Zangrillo attended the private Laguna Blanca School in Santa Barbara through her sophomore year, it is unclear from which high school she eventually graduated.
After failing to get accepted by USC, Amber (seen at right) did not begin matriculating at a four-year college in 2017. Instead, she apparently took online classes via Ria Salado College. However, as alleged by federal prosecutors, Zangrillo and her father kept their sights on USC despite have already received a rejection letter.
Which is how William Rick Singer entered the picture.
Singer, 59, was the mastermind of the college cheating ring that resulted this week in the arrest of dozens of parents and college coaches and administrators. Singer, who has been cooperating with federal investigators, pleaded guilty Tuesday to multiple felony charges related to the scheme. Court papers do not reveal how the Zangrillos met Singer or whether the consultant had previously been used by the family (Amber’s older sisters are recent graduates of USC and NYU).
In the wake of Amber’s rejection by USC, prosecutors charge, Singer told Zangrillo’s father that he could arrange her acceptance to the Los Angeles school as a transfer student by falsely claiming that she was a crew team recruit. Amber, however, had never rowed (and her original application to USC made no mention of her purported crew bona fides).
 

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ghosttruck

Level 57 Taco Wizard
Staff member
I don’t understand this shit. If they’re already well-connected, well, why does the education bit matter? Not everyone is cut out for academia. Accept it, embrace it, move the fuck on.
I work in academia and I completely agree! We seem to have it in our heads that without college you cannot achieve anything and that's BS. I'm a huge fan of Mike Rowe's initiative to get kids to try a trade.
 

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brokenandtwisted

Trusted Member
They need to go after these students too. No way they didnt know what their parents were up to.
Yep. Staging mock photo shoots to show they’re rowers? The kids knew exactly what was up. They should be expelled for academic dishonesty, and, well, fraud. They’re frauds.

My alma mater is super prestigious, like most of the schools listed, so I guess that’s why I find this shit so offensive. I had to work my tits off for my degrees. Fuck these assholes.
 

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JackBurton

Veteran Member
Bold Member!
Yep. Staging mock photo shoots to show they’re rowers? The kids knew exactly what was up. They should be expelled for academic dishonesty, and, well, fraud. They’re frauds.

My alma mater is super prestigious, like most of the schools listed, so I guess that’s why I find this shit so offensive. I had to work my tits off for my degrees. Fuck these assholes.
Why'd you get more than one degree? If the college was worth their salt, one shoulda done the trick.

I dont just want em expelled, they need to be criminally prosecuted, the lot of em.
 

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brokenandtwisted

Trusted Member
Why'd you get more than one degree? If the college was worth their salt, one shoulda done the trick.

I dont just want em expelled, they need to be criminally prosecuted, the lot of em.
I did my undergrad and then my medical degree at the University of Toronto. You need an undergraduate degree to get into most medical schools. It’s definitely worth some salt - last I checked, it ranked higher than all of the Ivy League save for Harvard.

And yes, we definitely need to see some legal proceedings. I don’t think they’ll get away with it. One thing I’ve learned is that pissing off poor people is fine; piss off rich people, you’re toast. The Stanford and Yale kids are screwed.
 

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Old Man Metal

Trusted Member
Staff member
I have several degrees.. 5% of that bs I learned I actually use at work.. it’s still who you know.. trade school would take you further unless headed for full fledge medical..
It all depends on what you want to do. I'm a degreed Engineer, couldn't have worked in that field without the paper. But so many degrees are essentially wasted money, creating crushing debt and little-to-no employability increases, and you can definitely make bank without a degree.

And once you get past that first job, like you say, it's a lot more who you know and what you've actually done.

This currently-rampant "everyone should be able to go to college" nonsense is destructive, disingenuous, and completely misses the point.
 

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Old Man Metal

Trusted Member
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@Old Man Metal .. The problem I ran into and TONS of others.. ‘you need experience ‘ .. how the fuck can you get experience without a fucking 1st job?! I was grown single mom.. I couldn’t free internship shit..
Yeah, Catch-22. I've had to slog through entry-level shit a few times and climb from there. That's one way. Another is the one that you mention, an unpaid internship, but like you said, that's not always possible.

I got into bartending by going to school for it; the course was a couple of weeks and it included job placement after you graduated. A lot of the bars in town hired from there; I got a job in no time- I interview well. Sometimes there's a scam like that you can pay-to-play.
 

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ghosttruck

Level 57 Taco Wizard
Staff member
I started as a college work study for the IT department will studying English lit. Running cables though insulation, unboxing computers...shit work. That was 20 years ago. Busted my ass, made an impression that I was the guy who'd take on any change and never afraid to get my hands dirty. Now I still work for the same guy, we're like family, and I'm #2 with a crew under me and a surely old secretary.
Never did get around to teaching English lit...but I enjoy my job and since I started at the bottom I never send my guys to do a job that I haven't done a thousand times before.
 

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brokenandtwisted

Trusted Member
This currently-rampant "everyone should be able to go to college" nonsense is destructive, disingenuous, and completely misses the point.
Radical ideas incoming, haha.

I think everyone should be able to go to college, but that differs from actually believing that everyone should go to college. The opportunity should be available; but people shouldn’t feel they require college to succeed in life. We need a lot more vocational schooling and all that jazz. It should not only be encouraged: trades-based education should be compulsory in secondary school. Carpentry class, mechanics, fuck, home economics and balancing a goddamn pay check...all of it should be mandatory. It’s poisonous to assume a degree is a requirement/necessary for success. There should be zero shame in being a welder, plumber, electrician, etc. Graduating with a degree in something pointless and working minimum wage is just asinine and screams entitlement. We now live in some weird-ass timeline where we’re short of tradespeople but have loads of liberal arts graduates.

No shade to throw because I am an artsy person. It’s a sad fact that much of arts-based university has little applicability in reality. To be completely honest, I only went to university because I’m academically-inclined and my family had the means. Medicine wasn’t on my mind. My undergrad is in English literature with an emphasis on Victorian polemicists, particularly Thomas Carlyle. I dabbled with Dark Romanticism and American Transcendentalism, and I probably would have continued studying the rhetoric of their confluence at the graduate level if things played out differently. But what I studied has zero bearing on reality. It’s ivory tower bullshit. The only thing I learned is how to persuade the shit out people. Sort of useful, I suppose, but I’m not a lawyer or politician, so...not using it!

I guess my point is that people should be able to study useless shit. They just have to live with the consequences...like soul-crushing debt.
 

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Old Man Metal

Trusted Member
Staff member
What @brokenandtwisted just said. All of it.
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And that was my point about it being disingenuous... the pertinent issue isn't whether or not everyone should have the opportunity, but whether or not everyone should take advantage of the opportunity. As with a lot of things, the issue is completely mis-framed by partisans.
 
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Prettypink513

Church Member
Bold Member!
@Old Man Metal .. The problem I ran into and TONS of others.. ‘you need experience ‘ .. how the fuck can you get experience without a fucking 1st job?! I was grown single mom.. I couldn’t free internship shit..
Exactly. I'm wanting to get my hr certification, but they won't even let you take the test without at least a year of experience.
 

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cubby

Live Long and Prosper
Bold Member!
What @brokenandtwisted just said. All of it.
AGREED 100%!!!

My friend has two sons, older son has a plan and he's still right on target, go into the military, go to UGA with the GI benefits, go to officer's school become a Navy pilot, long range goal, commercial pilot. He's up to the Navy pilot.

Younger son, not so much, but he did go to the local tech school and became a welder, works every day, made $100,000+ last year.

The ways are different for everyone, Her older son is a know it all shithead while her younger son is a more modest get things done kinda guy, they both made it and they did it their own way and have excelled. More kids need to be told the benefits of tech schooling. Our local tech school is losing students daily because there is absolutely no backing to send kids there, every kid is on an acadenic track even the ones who can't tie their shoes without help and it's ridiculous.
 

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JackBurton

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It is becoming trickier to do the vocational trade school thing though. MANY of these places are just as corrupt and greedy as the traditional higher education/4 year degrees. Gotta be VERY careful about where to learn the skill and how to go about it.

Great point made above regarding "secondary" school, which i guess is akin to highschool in non-eurotrash places like America, and the need for more practical coursework. It's standard for basic computer stuff to be offered at most every highschool, which is valuable, but rare to get much outside of that. Meanwhile were wasting time and money on bullshit like gym class, paying idiot gym teachers to waste everyones time. I dont think it would be TOO hard to get a couple beater junker cars donated for kids to be able to work on, and pay some bloke to teach an automotive basics type of course. I know some schools DO do a tech prep program where kids graduate highschool fully trained/certified to work as car mechanics or nursing assistants. Be nice if things existed outside of that, or if such thigns werent tailored toward kids as a complete and total alternative to the more traditional academic/college prep/want to be a smart kid getting good grades type of direction.

I think everyone should be able to go to college, but that differs from actually believing that everyone should go to college. The opportunity should be available
Every able bodied person in America CAN go to college. The United States military pays for it. They actually pay for it multiple times over as tax dollars fund douchebags taking classes while serving and then of course the GI Bill can be cashed in later on.

Bit trickier for those physically incapable of enlisting. Still doable if someone wants to work hard or is smart about pursuing scholarships. 95% of scholarships anybody applies for are going to go to someone else, but if you apply to 1000, literally 1000, and there ARE that fucking many out there, unless youre a total fuckup shit for brains and therefore likely shouldnt be in college to begin with, youre going to get paid.
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I think the biggest problem is that people dont give a shit that college costs have gotten where they are. Only industry in America that raises its costs/rates so extensively every single fucking year, only one with costs so out of wack to begin with, yet not a single soul in America chooses to do anything about it.

Even politicians turn a blind eye, while at the same time bitching about how student loan debt is a serious problem. They pay the lip service to make folks feel they give a shit, but they dont actually do shit to threaten the big business of higher education.

This als oplays into why people dont apply to 1000 scholarships, or dont enlist in the military to get their education paid for, or why they go to school without knowing EXACTLY what they want to do for a career and spend years fucking around without direction whilst spending tends of thousands of dollars for nothing. People just accept that it's going to cost a lot, they just accept the debt, and the willingly choose to make idiotic decisions. There is no other area of anyones life outside of gambling addicts and drug users and fools like that where people so regularly and freely throw such immense amounts of money into the trash, yet it is a normal, accepted part of our society. Fools. I have zero sympathy.
 
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notchback

Insensitive Asshole
Bold Member!
Every able bodied person in America CAN go to college. The United States military pays for it. They actually pay for it multiple times over as tax dollars fund douchebags taking classes while serving and then of course the GI Bill can be cashed in later on.

Are you suggesting that they become veterans? I thought you hated veterans.
 

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Brillig

Danse Macabre Instructor
Bold Member!
My friends are pushing hard for their kid with learning disabilities and zero motivation to graduate from high school on time with a regular degree (with a huge mountain of "accommodations" to get there), and then to attend college to become an engineer. This seems nearly impossible to me. If they were realistic, they would send him to trade school.
 

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ghosttruck

Level 57 Taco Wizard
Staff member
My friends are pushing hard for their kid with learning disabilities and zero motivation to graduate from high school on time with a regular degree (with a huge mountain of "accommodations" to get there), and then to attend college to become an engineer. This seems nearly impossible to me. If they were realistic, they would send him to trade school.
Too often people look down on those with trades even if they make good money and love it...for some reason a college degree that most people don't use is better...seems odd to me
 

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Alf

Cereal Box Reader
Bold Member!
Too often people look down on those with trades even if they make good money and love it...for some reason a college degree that most people don't use is better...seems odd to me
I have seen a shitload of qualification inflation over the past decade. Employers want a baccalaureate for the same identical tasks I did in the service as a high-school grad.

--Al
 

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VLGRDSPLY

Well-Known Member
Bold Member!
granted my lil is only 10 he HATES school and everything to do with it, has since kindergarten. But he can change oil, work on cars and motorcycles, can lay floor, hang drywall, roofing etc. I am already planning on selling my house and moving to a town with a technical highschool for him when the time comes.

If things change and for some reason he wants to go to college its on him - but anything trade related I will help pay for and push him to not just do "contruction" like daddy, but to own a kick ass amazing construction company etc.

My nephew just graduated high school, took electrical and he had 3 job offers within 2 weeks of graduating. The company he went with is paying for him to get his license and he started at like 28 bucks an hour!
 

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spiff

Professional cat spooner.
Bold Member!
My friends are pushing hard for their kid with learning disabilities and zero motivation to graduate from high school on time with a regular degree (with a huge mountain of "accommodations" to get there), and then to attend college to become an engineer. This seems nearly impossible to me. If they were realistic, they would send him to trade school.
That's absurd, they'll fail out. SO many engineers fail out freshman year, because it's a whole hell of a lot of work. I don't see how anyone with learning disabilities would make it through. It was fucking exhausting and I actually did have excellent grades and no learning disabilities. If she makes them do that, they'll drop out of engineering and probably go after a Sociology degree.


People do seem to think you can get non-trade jobs without a degree now, and just work your way up the corporate ladder. That's not a thing anymore. Yeah, back in the day you could get an admin position and prove yourself without a degree. Now? You need a Bachelor's to even get a receptionist job in every office I've ever worked in. So although there are success stories of people who didn't get into a trade and also didn't attend college, I'm pretty sure all of those people are above the age of 40 and it's just not happening anymore.

High schools are starting to recognize that learning a trade is absolutely crucial for anyone who does not choose the college path. I am the engineering liaison for the high school near my office, and they have specialty engineering, culinary, environmental technology, etc. concentrations, and there is a nearby high school that offers auto, carpentry, plumbing, etc. programs, so the schools are finally starting to recognize that they need to offer a path that doesn't lead to college for everyone.

As much as people complain about college, if you're actually poor you get fantastic financial aid to certain colleges. You just have to know which ones will offer the best aid. My parents are not rich nor poor, but I got a free ride to any state school and had an almost free ride to a couple rich-people private colleges. It's just more difficult than if you can straight out afford tuition.

Things have changed, and I'm not sure everyone is up to speed anymore on how necessary education or training is if you ever want to make more than $40k.
 

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Satanica

Veteran Member
Bold Member!
Just to give you some perspective, my student loan for one year back in 1968 was around $1500. Let that soak in for a minute. At a state university and it included dorm. Today, one year tuition with dorm at the same university is close to $24,000.
 

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Benighted

My brain hurts
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I have seen a shitload of qualification inflation over the past decade. Employers want a baccalaureate for the same identical tasks I did in the service as a high-school grad.

--Al
I've been working in public libraries for 30 years this year and because the positions that require degrees have been creeping further and further down the line, I'm now back to doing the same job I was doing in 1989, for not much more money. I used to be really dedicated to it and see it as a calling but I'm thinking about getting out of it and just getting a job at the local supermarket because I'd make about the same money, work closer to home and have a chance for promotion.
 

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Satanica

Veteran Member
Bold Member!
[....]
According to court documents released by The Atlantic, Giannulli may not have even filled out her own application for the school she would later be accepted to. Loughlin, who was released on $1 million bond for her role in paying $500,000 to Singer to make it look like her daughters rowed crew, reportedly e-mailed the organizer to get guidance on how to complete the USC application in a way that wouldn’t raise red flags.

“[Our younger daughter] has not submitted all her colleges [sic] apps and is confused on how to do so,” Loughlin allegedly wrote in December 2017. “I want to make sure she gets those in as I don’t want to call any attention to [her] with her little friend at [her high school]. Can you tell us how to proceed?”

Singer allegedly then directed an employee to fill out and submit the applications on behalf of Giannulli. If true, it would mean that the YouTube star didn’t lift much of a finger to get herself into USC.
[....]
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/lori-loughlins-daughter-olivia-jade-reportedly-didnt-fill-out-her-own-college-application
 

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Brillig

Danse Macabre Instructor
Bold Member!
That's absurd, they'll fail out. SO many engineers fail out freshman year, because it's a whole hell of a lot of work. I don't see how anyone with learning disabilities would make it through.
It would be hard, but I think someone with learning disabilities and high motivation might be able to pull it off. Sadly, this kid has learning disabilities and zero motivation. I predict that if he ever makes it to college he will instantly stop doing any work the moment there is nobody standing over him to force him to do it.
 

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spiff

Professional cat spooner.
Bold Member!
@Brillig you might be right, if they have disabilities pertaining to language or memorization based subjects. Plenty of engineers suck with words, and many are dyslexic. Plenty of wonderfully awkward people do so well in the nerdy atmosphere too, it’s great.

If the learning disability includes math and science? I actually don’t know if they could get a BS in engineering from an accredited school, you need to be relatively quick at your work. Honestly not worth the attempt, there are easier ways to go that earn more money anyway.
 

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