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TheMorningStar

is a catcus

The defense lawyer for Michelle Carter, accused of encouraging a Mattapoisett teen to commit suicide, said she initially tried to get him help and suggested he join her at McLean Hospital, but then became "brainwashed" into assisting him with plans to take his own life.Carter, the 18-year-old Plainville teen charged with involuntary manslaughter, told Conrad Roy III, 18, to come and join her at McLean Hospital, a psychiatric facility in Belmont, where she was, according to Joseph P. Cataldo. He refused, Cataldo said."He ultimately persuaded a young, impressionable girl," the attorney told reporters in an interview."Eventually he gets her to endorse his plan."
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150824/NEWS/150829729/-1/breaking_ajax
 
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reneelvsbrian

Trusted Member
I have been pretty depressed before and felt like killing myself a couple times, I would never do it. I think he had his own mind no matter what she said, you cant make somebody do something they dont really want to do! IMO
 

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Oberle

Trusted Member
I have been pretty depressed before and felt like killing myself a couple times, I would never do it. I think he had his own mind no matter what she said, you cant make somebody do something they dont really want to do! IMO
I agree. On the other hand, this person could have taken actions to save him. She chose to encourage him to end his life instead.

I didn't know she was in a psychiatric hospital herself. Maybe someone there will be able to help her. She's clearly not right in the head. :shifty:
 

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ScarlettHarlot

Well-Known Member
Do we know if she was in the hospital herself as a patient? Can we confirm or disprove this? Because I thought it meant she was working there, or offering to meet him there for support. Because if she was an inpatient, I doubt people would be holding her accountable, and it def changes the tone of the whole thing.

The defence argument is silly, and so are the people buying it. If she isn't responsible for influencing him because he made his own choices, then he isn't responsible for 'brainwashing' her, because she made her own choices regardless of his influence. It goes both ways.
 

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Oberle

Trusted Member
Do we know if she was in the hospital herself as a patient? Can we confirm or disprove this? Because I thought it meant she was working there, or offering to meet him there for support.
Oh, good point, I hadn't thought of that. Now I want to know, cause it makes a big difference!
 

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Oberle

Trusted Member
Hmm, seems she was a patient for a little while at least, this is a quote from her (busy justifying her actions to a friend):

"And therapy didn't help him and I wanted him to go to McLeans with me when I went but he would go in the other department for his issues but he didn't want to go because he said nothing they would do or say would help him or change the way he feels."​

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150822/NEWS/150829806

Still seems like a little sociopath to me. :mad:
 

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SkummyRummy

Active Member
Those transcripts are horrible. She apparently really needed the attention from others around her that her bf killed himself. Ugh it's horrible. She's a fuckn bitch. Fuck her
 

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amac

Trusted Member
Those transcripts are unbelievable. Relentless is an understatement. She's depraved. A little narcissistic sociopath. Dexter has more moral backbone than this piece of work.

Here he is expressing concern that he doesn't want to hurt responders or passerbys with the gas, while she's simultaneously pressing him to kill himself faster. Bit of a contrast. Poor guy didn't recognize he'd hitched his wagon to a monster. This bitch might as well have been standing there as he died to watch and drool. Fuck her! If I were his family I'd want to rip her smug little head off!

Ugh, now I'm gonna have a looping mantra of "do it" echoing in my head. And I don't ever want to see another valley girl "like" used in a written sentence again.
 

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Podargus

Reality Bites
Appeal to dismiss has been rejected.

He ultimately persuaded a young, impressionable girl," Joseph P. Caltado told reporters, according to South Coast Today. "Eventually he gets her to endorse his plan."

She was "brainwashed," Mr Caltado added. His client has pleaded not guilty, according to media reports.

Last month, Carter's attorneys filed a motion to dismiss the indictment against her. In addition to the "brainwashing" defense, they argued that her texts were protected by the First Amendment. They have also introduced other text messages that, they claim, show Carter initially tried to convince Roy to abandon his suicide obsession.

One text, allegedly sent by Carter, asked Roy to "promise" her he wasn't going to kill himself. "I wanna help you live again," said another text, also allegedly from Carter.

"It's a sad story, a tragedy, but it's not manslaughter," Mr Caltado told CBS in March. "What we have here is a young man who made a voluntary decision to end his own life. It was his voluntary decision. His death was not caused by Michelle Carter."

The attorney said the case, "where a person who is 30 miles away is charged with committing manslaughter by text," was unprecedented in Massachusetts. The state does not have a statute criminalising assisted suicide.

On Wednesday, juvenile court judge Bettina Borders rejected Mr Cataldo's motion to dismiss, effectively allowing the case to proceed to trial.

In a seven-page ruling citing the teens' 45-minute phone conversation just before Roy's death, MS Borders ruled that prosecutors had shown enough evidence of wrongdoing to override any First Amendment concerns.

"Even if the defendant did not understand the consequences of her actions, a reasonable person would have realised that telling a person to get back into a truck filled with carbon monoxide would pose a grave risk of danger to that person," the judge wrote, according to the Sun Chronicle.

Carter's attorneys said they plan to appeal Wednesday's ruling.

"I'm both surprised and disappointed," said Mr Caltado.

"I'm surprised the court didn't analyse the text messages that Michelle Carter sent to Conrad Roy throughout June (of 2014) asking him to get help," he said. "It seemed to have relied on the text messages the government put forward."

Carter is scheduled to appear in court on Nov. 30 for a pretrial hearing.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/manslaughter-by-text-teen-faces-charges-after-boyfriend-suicides-20150925-gjv9xk.html#ixzz3pQkKihAO
 

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McDanel

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
Caltado's argument makes me want to puke, but then it's his job. Ludicrous to portray her as a victim of brainwashing, some naive innocent.

When he changed his mind, she told him to get back in the truck; everything else is a distraction, or window dressing.
 

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Muriel Schwenck

polyracial ecosexual
Bold Member!
She "brainwashed" herself. She's monumentally self absorbed. Every time she tried to help him, she was saying to herself or someone else, "See how I am trying to help him, aren't I wonderful?"
She'll get away with it, then she will have children and screw up more lives.
I see Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy in her future.
 

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TheMorningStar

is a catcus
A teenager who sent her boyfriend dozens of text messages encouraging him to take his own life and told him to "get back in" a truck filled with carbon monoxide fumes must stand trial for involuntary manslaughter, the state's highest court ruled Friday.

The Supreme Judicial Court ruled Friday that a grand jury had probable cause to indict Michelle Carter, then 17, in the 2014 death of Carter Roy III, 18.

Carter's lawyer had argued that her texts were free speech protected by the First Amendment and didn't cause Roy to kill himself.

But the court, in a strongly worded decision, said the grand jury heard evidence suggesting that Carter engaged in a "systematic campaign of coercion" that targeted Roy's insecurities and that her instruction to "get back in" his truck in the final moments of his life was a "direct, causal link" to his death.

"In sum, we conclude that there was probable cause to show that the coercive quality of the defendant's verbal conduct overwhelmed whatever willpower the eighteen year old victim had to cope with his depression, and that but for the defendant's admonishments, pressure, and instructions, the victim would not have gotten back into the truck and poisoned himself to death," Justice Robert Cordy wrote for the court in the unanimous ruling.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/court-oks-trial-girl-texted-boyfriend-urging-suicide-150603008.html
 

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McDanel

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
She consciously chose to manipulate and exploit his instability just to draw attention to herself, Munchausen by proxy. He changed his mind. She shamed him back into it. She concealed his location from his parents, and did not call for help. Next, she begins a suicide awareness campaign in his name, so his death becomes all about her.

That's all I need to know about her. Remember, Charles Manson never killed anyone, he used psychological manipulation to kill.
 

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Burke

Active Member
Mystified and a little bit on the fence, until I read the transcripts. Linking them here again for anyone who hasn't read them yet: http://m.wcvb.com/blob/view/-/34888334/data/1/-/3mh04m/-/MichelleCarterCourtDocs082415.pdf

It's entirely possible that she has a mental illness herself -- likely, even -- but that does not excuse her continual insistence on his suicide. She's framing it as "you'll be happier dead" but then responding to every single text with questions about when he's gonna "do it". AND she asked him, while he was in the truck, if he deleted the text messages -- that's as good as an admission of guilt if you ask me.

I think being in a relationship with a depressed, suicidal young man was difficult for her, and it was easier and more exciting for her to encourage him to kill himself than it was for her to continually reassure him or break up with him. If he killed himself after their break-up, she wouldn't be able to reap as much of that sweet, sweet pity, would she? So she decided to make herself a martyr and a saint by loving him SO MUCH that she just wanted him to be happy.. even if that meant killing himself.

Sick. Stupid teenagers.

Was this kid on any anti-depressants? Why was "or I'll get you help" a threat to him -- how unpleasant had his experience with "getting help" been? Did his dad realize there was a missing generator and just not look into it? Did he have a therapist, and did his therapist take his suicidal ideation seriously?
 

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TaupinJohn

Active Member
Assisted suicide then ... still a crime. Did he have some incurable, painful illness?
The biggest problem this poor guy had was that his girlfriend was an evil, psycho bitch who'd trade his life for some attention and sympathy. And no, no painful illness etc. Just what seems to have been acute depression, which is treatable.


I know I say this a lot, but I believe it: Suicide can completely destroy a family. All deaths are a loss, but the "what ifs" and "why didn't I"s can make the best of us question... everything. The guilt... it's so consistent. It seeps back to our conscious minds when we aren't looking, and it just never stops. It's painful to read those texts he sent; he clearly would've abandoned the plan if not for her. Cannot imagine what that did to his parents, loved ones et al.

If this had been a loved one of mine, I wouldn't have been able to stay away from her... I'd have had to at least try to fuck her up. I almost never feel that angry at someone I don't know, but this young man would be alive if not for her... that's gotta earn her a felony conviction, God those texts make it all so clear... a hopeful slam dunk for the prosecution.

There's just no place for that degree of evil. Cage her and melt the key please... the world is safer with her in there.

Lack of conscience is dangerous as hell... couple that with a drama queen who fancies herself godly enough to do this... when she does get out, she's gonna fuck with so many minds, as it apparently gets her off.
Like poison in a skirt, she is. I think she deserves LWOP... and thats being kind.
 
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Muriel Schwenck

polyracial ecosexual
Bold Member!
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/columnists/bob_mcgovern/2016/12/michelle_carter_s_defense_calling_teen_brain_into_question

The inner workings of the modern-day teenager’s mind will be on display in the case of Michelle Carter, and her defense team appears poised to show why a teen’s jumbled thoughts and impulsive decisions should lead to a not-guilty verdict at her involuntary manslaughter trial.
[doublepost=1491531776,1480709531][/doublepost]This just keeps dragging on. Trial delayed again.

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/02/trial_pushed_back_for_michelle.html

February 21, 2017
The trial of Michelle Carter has been pushed back to June, more than two and a half years after she allegedly encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself.

...

Following a lengthy legal battle, Carter was scheduled to go on trial on March 6. But her defense attorneys filed for a 90-day continuance in the case, pushing the trial date to June 5, an official with the Bristol County Juvenile Court said.

"Additional evidence and time was needed," Carter's defense attorney Joseph Cataldo wrote in an email.

...

Carter was charged with involuntary manslaughter in February of 2015. In September Taunton Juvenile Court Judge Bettina Borders rejected Cataldo's motion to dismiss the charge, allowing the case to move forward. Free speech, Borders ruled, does not extend to encouraging suicide.

Cataldo then filed an appeal to a single justice of the state Supreme Judicial Court and the district attorney's office filed a response in November. The full court announced it would hear the case in February, and earlier this month ruled that the charges were proper and the case can proceed.

In the defense's appeal brief, Carter's attorneys wrote that prosecutors had overcharged Carter to compensate for a lack of applicable law against encouraging suicide in Massachusetts.

"Charging her with manslaughter was a transparent effort calculated to circumvent the fact that the legislature has not criminalized words that encourage suicide," the brief argued.

Prosecutors allege that Carter led a campaign of encouragement that directly led to the death of Roy, who had graduated from Old Rochester Regional High School that June.

"Carter assisted Conrad's suicide by counseling him to overcome his doubts," the indictment reads. "Her counsel took the form of positive direction, where she told him he was 'strong' enough to execute the suicide plan and would be happy once he was dead."

The text messages included in court filings show Carter, in between professions of love, advocating for suicide as Roy's best option after an extended period of depression.

"It's painless and quick," she wrote in one text. "Everyone will be sad for a while but they will get over it and move on," she wrote in another. She urged him not to delay the act, and advised him to find alternative methods of producing carbon monoxide when it became clear his truck's diesel engine would not work.

She also allegedly cajoled him back into the truck over the phone after he had second thoughts in the middle of the act, the prosecution said.

The prosecution has portrayed Carter as an active participant in Roy's death -- one who, after the fact, pretended to have no knowledge of the plan. She texted with Roy's relatives, asking where he was in the hours before his body was found in the Kmart parking lot.
March 23, 2017
https://heatst.com/world/psychiatrist-woman-in-texting-suicide-case-was-involuntarily-intoxicated-by-antidepressants/
A psychiatrist has claimed that a Massachusetts teenager who allegedly encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide was ‘involuntarily intoxicated’ by prescribed antidepressants she was taking at the time she acted.
...
Psychiatrist Dr Peter Breggin has been hired by Carter’s defense team and appeared at Taunton Juvenile Court this week so a judge can determine whether he should be allowed to provide expert testimony in Carter’s forthcoming trial.

Dr Breggin – who is regarded as controversial having been banned from testifying in other cases – told the court that Carter loved Mr Roy but was not responsible for his death because she was being treated with the antidepressant Celexa in 2014. This would have altered her brain and meant she wouldn’t have understood the impact of her texts, he stated.

According to WPRI.com Dr Breggin said: ‘She had no notion of wrongfulness on what she was doing. The impairment of being on the drugs while you are growing up, while your brain is maturing, while your frontal lobes are developing, you’re talking about being inundated with neurotoxic effects.’

During cross-examination, prosecutors questioned Dr Breggin’s credentials and accused him of being an ‘extremist’ who was critical of antidepressants.
Assistant District Attorney Katie Rayburn pushed him to admit he only reached his conclusion about Carter based on medical records and the text exchange between her and Mr Roy.

Carter’s defense team was granted a request late last year for funds to hire an expert to examine the antidepressant she was taking at the time. Her attorney Joseph Cataldo has said that Celexa could be the key to her defense because it can increase suicidal thoughts.

The judge did not immediately rule on whether Dr Breggin can testify.
 
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Sue sue

Take 6
Bold Member!
http://www.fox25boston.com/news/jury-selection-to-begin-in-michelle-carter-trial/529788844
  • One of the allegations involves Carter communicating with Roy as he was trying to asphyxiate himself with vehicle exhaust.

    “He allegedly walked out of the car where he was committing suicide, was having second thoughts about it... Was scared about the whole thing... And she allegedly encouraged him to step back in,” said Ellikan.

    Carter's attorneys will likely argue the Plainville woman broke no law and was exercising her right to free speech. Plus, she was a juvenile at the time.

    But Ellikan says the toughest task facing the defense is to change the perception of Michelle Carter.

    “I think the main challenge for the defense is to make this person, so unlikable in the public, to somehow show a human side to her and show something about her that is, indeed, likable,” said Ellikan.
 

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cubby

Live Long and Prosper
Bold Member!
show a human side to her and show something about her that is, indeed, likable,” said Ellikan.
Well, you've got a tough row to hoe, Mr. Ellikan, she is certainly seems one of the most unlikable person ever to draw a breath.
 

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EchaSez

Hope is the thing with feathers.
With friends like this...amirite?
I really want to see her pay for her interference. If she just wanted to feel important, she could've arranged to be there to "save" him, but no. She did this because she could.

...Prosecutors showed in court a video made by Roy describing his tormented soul a month before he took his life...

...Members of Roy’s family were present in court Thursday as text messages were read aloud...

The Massachusetts woman on trial for encouraging her boyfriend’s 2014 suicide brainstormed ways for him to kill himself, according to text messages read in court.

“Hang yourself, jump off a building, stab yourself idk there's a lot of ways," Michelle Carter, 20, wrote in one text message to Conrad Roy, 18, who cops found dead in his pickup truck at a Kmart parking lot near Boston on July 13, 2014.

“I keep regretting the past it’s getting me upset,” Roy texted Carter.

“Take your life?” Carter replied. :mad:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/mass-woman-charged-boyfriend-death-life-article-1.3232114
 

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Caligirl90

The Bitch Witch Penguin
The worst text for me is on the day he died, sitting in his truck as the fumes filled it, texting her he got out, and her telling him to get back in. Then when inside him telling her he wanted to get out again, and her telling him he better stay in there.
 

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EchaSez

Hope is the thing with feathers.
The defense is throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks...

Woman in texting suicide case 'intoxicated' by antidepressants, doctor says

Taunton, Massachusetts (CNN) A woman on trial for urging her boyfriend to kill himself was delusional after becoming "involuntarily intoxicated" by antidepressants, a psychiatrist said Monday.

Michelle Carter "was unable to form intent" after switching to a new prescription drug only weeks before her boyfriend committed suicide in July 2014, Dr. Peter Breggin testified. She even texted his phone for weeks after he died, Breggin said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/health/text-message-suicide-trial/index.htmlc
 

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ChaosKitty

Queen Bitch From Hell
I'm hoping nothing sticks for the defense to allow this pos get out of prison time, she really never felt she would be charged and was shocked. Boston used to have allot of common sense people up there and hopefully they won't buy it
 

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cubby

Live Long and Prosper
Bold Member!
delusional after becoming "involuntarily intoxicated" by antidepressants,
I only wanted to sleep when I was on antidepressants, never mind involuntarily intoxicated, I was involuntarily napping or looking like I was hypnotized in the corner. i didn't have enough energy to talk someone into suicide. So I call bullshit.
 

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McDanel

Trusted Member
Bold Member!
The forehead pout, every time I see a pic of her in court I see that damned expression, brows reaching for the scalp, forehead furrowed, puppy dog eyes. "Oh woe is me, my boyfriend killed himself, and then this happened."
 

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