• You must be logged in to see or use the chatbox

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
Dr. Jonathan Fellus, the chief medical officer with the International Brain Research Foundation, a nonprofit group that specializes in treating coma patients and claims to have helped hundreds of people deemed brain dead awaken from comas, is in California to assist Jahi McMath's family.
I'm just going to repost @TeeJay's link to the Atlantic article in response:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/02/nobody-declared-brain-dead-ever-wakes-up-feeling-pretty-good/253315/
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Azryhael

Princess of Putrefaction
Don't make me bring Mike the Headless Chicken into the conversation!

ETA: Mike had a decent chunk of his brain stem intact post-decapitation, which, not to sound crass, is more brain function than little Jahi McMath will ever have. Jahi's family is turning her body into a sideshow reminiscent of Mike the Headless Chicken in the 1940s, and it makes me sick.
 
Last edited:

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
Hey, I just found something... the "routine tonsilectomy" (as it's been reported by nearly every media outlet) included a Uvulopalatopharyngoplasty.

After a UPPP, you're supposed to wait a full week before ingesting solid food. Think Mom really listened to the doctors? Whether or not she did could easily be established by an autopsy. I'm starting to suspect at least part of the reason Mom is doing this is as a smoke screen.
 
Last edited:

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
I'm sure we all have California law regarding corpse transfer memorized at the point, so here's some more on the New York angle:
New York State Code Section 4200:
Except in the cases in which a right to dissect it is expressly conferred by law, every body of a deceased person, within this state, shall be decently buried or incinerated within a reasonable time after death.
New York State Code Section 4144:
When the body of a deceased person is transported from outside of the state into a registration district in this state for burial or other disposition, the transit or removal permit issued in accordance with the law and health regulations of the place where the death occurred shall be given the same force and effect as the burial permit herein provided for.
And in case they attempt to deposit it in the City:

New York City Code Section 205.21:
Human remains may be temporarily held for more than the time periods specified in
subdivision (a) of this section without being buried, cremated or transported out of the
City only if an appropriate interim disposition permit has been issued pursuant to §205.21
In other words, you need a permit to hold onto a corpse for more than four days.

New York City Code Section 205.23:
Human remains shall not be brought into the City unless a permit for their transportation, burial
or cremation has been issued by the authorized agency of a municipality or county within the
United States, of a state, territory or possession of the United States, the District of Columbia or
of any foreign state within whose jurisdiction death or termination of pregnancy occurred.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
n a Dec. 29 letter to Dolan, Scerri wrote that she was "aware of Jahi McMath's dire situation and we are willing to open our outpatient facility" to her in a new facility called The Brendan House, which is "near completion." She wrote that she would provide Jahi with nursing staff, licensed respiratory therapists and a pediatrician. Her letter does not address cost, or who will be paying for the services.
Here's how "near completion" The Brendan House actually is:

This footage was taken on December 22nd, when the windows were finished being installed. They're still in need of funding, and it doesn't look like they anticipate opening before April 2014.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Nell

Unending melancholy
Bold Member!
When I read the body will become malnourished over time the first thought I had was, "good, she could stand to lose some weight."

I am going to hell. I blame you guys. You are horrible role models.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
When I read the body will become malnourished over time the first thought I had was, "good, she could stand to lose some weight."

I am going to hell. I blame you guys. You are horrible role models.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: we need a "SOOO WRONG LOL" button... or something to that effect.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Azryhael

Princess of Putrefaction
When I read the body will become malnourished over time the first thought I had was, "good, she could stand to lose some weight."

I am going to hell. I blame you guys. You are horrible role models.
That's why we love you, Nell. You say what everyone else is thinking with no apologies. Tell it like it is!
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

stefania

Active Member
SLEEP APNEA CAN COMPLICATE TONSILLECTOMY, DOCTORS SAY
Bleeding after removal of tonsils has been found to be severe for certain patients
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/31/tp-sleep-apnea-can-complicate-tonsillectomy/
A tonsillectomy is anything but routine when sleep apnea is involved.

That’s the message of ear, nose and throat specialists in the wake of the case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who went into cardiac arrest after having her tonsils removed Dec. 9 at Children’s Hospital Oakland.

Traditionally used to treat throat infections, tonsillectomy is increasingly used to fight sleep apnea. Removing enlarged tonsils can help clear the clogged airway of an apnea sufferer, allowing them to breathe well enough to get a good night’s sleep and avoid consequences ranging from high blood pressure to heart failure.

However, bleeding after tonsil removal can become severe, which can cause complications for apnea patients.

“When you put sleep apnea in the picture, you’re in a whole new realm of risk,” said Dr. Ted Mazer, an ear, nose and throat doctor and spokesman for the San Diego County Medical Society.
I gushed a lot of blood from my mouth about an hour after my tonsillectomy, but it was expected. So, this idea of her sitting there with a cup of blood and nurses saying to get a larger container doesn't sound abnormal to me at all. Does anyone else remember their tonsillectomy? I don't think the surgery was at fault, I think it's whatever happened in the ICU.
When sleep apnea patients are overweight, doctors said that can make it more difficult to insert a breathing tube if there is heavy bleeding after surgery. There can also be a greater risk of fluid filling the lungs and cardiac complications because apnea patients can have enlarged hearts.

While the McMath family has said she began bleeding heavily after surgery and eventually suffered cardiac arrest, it is not clear whether the team of nurses and doctors who responded to the emergency had trouble inserting a breathing tube.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Azryhael

Princess of Putrefaction
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/31/tp-sleep-apnea-can-complicate-tonsillectomy/

I gushed a lot of blood from my mouth about an hour after my tonsillectomy, but it was expected. So, this idea of her sitting there with a cup of blood and nurses saying to get a larger container doesn't sound abnormal to me at all. Does anyone else remember their tonsillectomy? I don't think the surgery was at fault, I think it's whatever happened in the ICU.
I've shared my story earlier in this thread. I nearly bled to death five years ago while at work two full weeks after my tonsillectomy. Had my workplace not been a hospital with a blood bank and an emergency room with an available trauma surgeon, I would be dead.

Immediately after I started bleeding, the L&D charge nurse stuck a basin under my chin before bundling me down to ER, but by the volume of blood it was instantly apparent that nothing normal was going on.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
The mother of Jahi McMath said today the hospital where the 13-year-old girl is being kept on life support is not feeding her and has been insensitive in referring to the brain-dead teen as "the body."

"To watch my daughter just sit there and not have food ... I'm just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good," Latasha Winkfield said today. "I tell her every day, 'Jahi, you losin' weight girl, but you still look good.' I just think it's inhumane to not feed my child, to not refer to her by her name, and stop us in our tracks."

The family has been fighting for time to find a facility willing to take Jahi, but hospital officials have said they don't believe any such place exists because the girl is "deceased."

"I hate it that they refer to her as just the body or the deceased; that is my child that they're talking about," Winkfield said. "They don't even use her name."

The family news conference came after the hospital filed a motion arguing the girl's family had plenty of time to find a new facility to take her and that she should be unhooked from her ventilator because she is legally dead.

[...]

Donations to a fundraiser Winfield started surged past $32,000 Monday night, according to gofundme.com, after the judge's decision.

The family has said it plans to use the money toward the cost of transferring Jahi to a new facility. But when reached by ABCNews.com Monday night, Jahi's uncle, Omari Sealy, declined to share specifics of the family's next move.

"We're just grateful," he said. "We want to thank God and everybody out there who prays for us. Keep praying, it's working."

Christopher Dolan, an attorney for the family, filed complaints in superior and federal courts on Monday to stop the hospital from unhooking Jahi when the previous court order expired at 5 p.m. PT Monday.

Also included in the federal complaint was a request that Children's Hospital Oakland perform a tracheotomy and to insert a feeding tube, which are necessary procedures before Jahi can be transferred.

Children's Hospital Oakland "does not believe that performing surgical procedures on the body of a deceased person is an appropriate medical practice," the hospital said in a statement posted on its website last week.

An attorney for the hospital wrote in today's court filing that administrators had not heard from any potential facilities the family has reportedly claimed are willing to take Jahi.

[...]

READ MORE: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/jahi-mcmath-brain-dead-girls-mom-hospitals-feeding/story?id=21381684
At this point, someone not affiliated with Children's Hospital just needs to walk into that fucking room and disconnect the body. What are they going to be charged with, murder? The girl's already dead! Abuse of a corpse? Don't make me laugh! Trespassing? Not if they have legitimate business being in that hospital.

I find the fact that a human corpse is receiving costly medical treatment while actual LIVING people are going without medical care absolutely vile.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Azryhael

Princess of Putrefaction
At this point, someone not affiliated with Children's Hospital just needs to walk into that fucking room and disconnect the body. What are they going to be charged with, murder? The girl's already dead! Abuse of a corpse? Don't make me laugh! Trespassing? Not if they have legitimate business being in that hospital.

I find the fact that a human corpse is receiving costly medical treatment while actual LIVING people are going without medical care absolutely vile.
As far as Ms Winkfield's opinion on the terminology Children's staff use to talk about the remains- sure, it would be insensitive if she had only just passed moments ago, but it's been fucking weeks! The time for coddling you has long passed, and at this point the hospital's referring to Jahi as "the body" is to help you get it through your thick fucking head!

And really, how do you propose to feed the corpse? Idiot woman.
 
Last edited:

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
Teleute said: ▲
Latasha Winkfield said today. "I tell her every day, 'Jahi, you losin' weight girl, but you still look good.'
Seriously???
Wake me up when this shit is over ..
Mama is nuts ..
If Mom is looking to feed her daughter post-mortem, what does this say about the odds of her having fed the girl post-op?

She needed to have waited a full week after surgery before ingesting solid food. I'm tell you ladies, this is a smokescreen.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

myra manes

Fuck You, I Am CAT
Bold Member!
If Mom is looking to feed her daughter post-mortem, what does this say about the odds of her having fed the girl post-op?

She needed to have waited a full week after surgery before ingesting solid food. I'm tell you ladies, this is a smokescreen.
I don't know about a smoke-screen but, mama needs to accept reality and move the fuck on, already ..
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Krystal

Veteran Member
What does one feed a corpse? It's brains and human flesh right? That's what I remember for all the zombie movies at least.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Rockin Ma

Chauffer specializing in geriatric transport
The hospital calls her deceased. Family through a lawyer says she is responding to her mother. The court granted another extension.

The court must not be convinced yet she is a dead person despite the hospital purposely using the words "deceased" and "corpse" every chance they can get.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

myra manes

Fuck You, I Am CAT
Bold Member!
The hospital calls her deceased. Family through a lawyer says she is responding to her mother. The court granted another extension.

The court must not be convinced yet she is a dead person despite the hospital purposely using the words "deceased" and "corpse" every chance they can get.
I think the court is simply showing compassion for the family ..
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

TeeJay

Well-Known Member
When I read the body will become malnourished over time the first thought I had was, "good, she could stand to lose some weight."

I am going to hell. I blame you guys. You are horrible role models.
I told someone earlier she's probably losing weight. haha If only the mother would have put Jahi on a strict diet she may not have had such a complicated surgery. :-(

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/dec/31/tp-sleep-apnea-can-complicate-tonsillectomy/

I gushed a lot of blood from my mouth about an hour after my tonsillectomy, but it was expected. So, this idea of her sitting there with a cup of blood and nurses saying to get a larger container doesn't sound abnormal to me at all. Does anyone else remember their tonsillectomy? I don't think the surgery was at fault, I think it's whatever happened in the ICU.

Wow, I didn't know tonsillectomies were such serious business and especially for people with sleep apnea. I've heard people having their tonsils removed to help sleep apnea though. Kind of scary it's so serious for sleep apnea, yet the surgery is routinely performed.

I had my tonsils removed in May of 1981 when I was 5 years old. The doc told my parents some tissue was "dropped" down my throat (I don't know how they protect airways during these surgeries, but obviously it went down my esophagus). I had no complications though. As soon as I woke up I started eating popsicles to help the scratchy feeling in my throat. My older brother and I were in the hospital together. He got sick. We both still spent a week in the hospital.

I remember getting in trouble by the nurse because I raised the bed as high as it would go and I jumped off then couldn't get back in. I had to go out to the nurses station to get someone to help me get back in bed then they took away my controller. :hilarious:
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
What does one feed a corpse? It's brains and human flesh right? That's what I remember for all the zombie movies at least.
Little Debbie Cakes?

I think the court is simply showing compassion for the family ..
Keep in mind that this is California, and we're looking at the potential violation of the constitutional rights of an undead minor. I think the court is simply trying to be progressive.

I told someone earlier she's probably losing weight. haha If only the mother would have put Jahi on a strict diet she may not have had such a complicated surgery. :-(
I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole, "I'm just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good... I tell her every day, 'Jahi, you losin' weight girl, but you still look good.'" Does this epsilon-minus semi-moron seriously not grasp the full extent of the damage she caused that girl? Forget the question of whether or not she slipped her a post-op treat; I'm talking about morbid obesity in a child and choosing surgery over a change in lifestyle -- surgery which, besides being incredibly risky on account of the girl's weight -- is known to be virtually ineffective for obese patients.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Dakota

FORUM BITCH / Beloved Cunt
Bold Member!
After about three consecutive weeks of praying, shouting, grieving, wrangling and weeping over a 13-year-old declared brain dead after a tonsillectomy, things were relatively quiet on New Year's Day regarding the life and death of Jahi McMath.

The family attorney, Chris Dolan, said there wasn't much to report, other than he was "burning up the phones" trying to find a doctor to perform a "tracheostomy in high-profile case is very difficult."

He added: "If this damn hospital would just 'trache' her we would be on the way to a facility that will provide world-class innovative treatments of the type being given to Prime Minister (Ariel) Sharon in Israel." Sharon has been in a permanent vegetative state since 2006 after a stroke, but his brain shows "robust activity" in response to pictures of his family.
[...]

Hospital spokesman Sam Singer took a shot at Dolan, however, on Wednesday.

"Chris Dolan, is perpetuating a sad hoax on the public that there is something that can be done to the body of Jahi McMath to bring her back to life," he said. "This is a tragedy that is being prolonged by Mr. Dolan. He is not being honest with his clients, the media and the public. The sad truth is that this young lady is dead and is not coming back. Our hearts go out to everyone involved in this case."

Aside from the question of who will pay for all this, there are several challenges ahead for the family in moving a body that has been declared dead by three doctors and a judge last month. In fact, Jahi's brain has not received oxygen for "well over two weeks," according to the findings of Stanford Dr. Paul Fisher.

But in court papers filed in U.S. District Court in Oakland on Dec. 30, Children's Hospital argued that doctors should not have to keep Jahi on a ventilator indefinitely and should not have to provide nutrition to or surgical procedures on a "deceased body."

A state appeals court on Tuesday refused to order the hospital to insert the tubes, saying the issue has to go first to the lower court judge who has ordered the hospital to keep the girl on a ventilator until Jan. 7 pending the family's appeal.

The hospital argued in 28 pages of filings that doctors are not violating any patient's rights, because a dead person has no rights to religion, privacy or disability. The hospital also argued that Jahi's mother, Latasha "Nailah" Winkfield has had "ample time" to find another facility "that might accept her deceased daughter's body."
[...]
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Burning-Up-the-Phones-to-Find-Center-for-Jahi-McMath-Attorney-238372101.html
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Azryhael

Princess of Putrefaction
Little Debbie Cakes?



Keep in mind that this is California, and we're looking at the potential violation of the constitutional rights of an undead minor. I think the court is simply trying to be progressive.
You nailed exactly what I wanted to get across. Thank you.

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the whole, "I'm just so happy that she is kind of a thick girl so she still looks good... I tell her every day, 'Jahi, you losin' weight girl, but you still look good.'" Does this epsilon-minus semi-moron seriously not grasp the full extent of the damage she caused that girl? Forget the question of whether or not she slipped her a post-op treat; I'm talking about morbid obesity in a child and choosing surgery over a change in lifestyle -- surgery which, besides being incredibly risky on account of the girl's weight -- is known to be virtually ineffective for obese patients.
But with surgery, they can pretend it's a medical issue, not the result of poor lifestyle choices. There very well may have been other legitimate medical problems that the surgery was supposed to help, but the primary treatment of sleep apnea in an overweight patient should be weight loss through lifestyle changes.

I know that losing weight is incredibly difficult for many people, and it's not fun, but surgery to fix symptoms in order to avoid confronting the underlying problem is not the way.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Teleute

Justice Democrat
Bold Member!
I threw together a pretty detailed analysis of this dog and pony show the other night (Sunday), and I wrote a follow-up last night. I thought about copying and pasting it here, but I didn't think Dakota would want me dumping several thousand words into a single post. (Besides, I'd probably break the Internet.)

My son is yelling "PLEASE STOP!" right now so I'd better go.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Nell

Unending melancholy
Bold Member!
I
OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) — The family of a 13-year-old California girl declared brain dead after tonsil surgery is encountering difficulty in obtaining two surgeries that she needs to undergo before she can be safely transferred to a long-term care facility.

A lawyer for Children's Hospital Oakland said that it is unwilling to allow an outside doctor to fit Jahi McMath with the breathing and feeding tubes that the family has requested.

The hospital will not permit the procedures to be performed on its premises because Jahi is legally dead in the view of doctors who have examined her, lawyer Douglas Straus wrote in a letter to the girl's family.

"Performing medical procedures on the body of a deceased human being is simply not something Children's Hospital can do or ask its staff to assist in doing," he said.

The refusal appeared to reverse the position articulated Monday by a hospital spokesman. He said the hospital would allow a doctor retained by the family to insert a feeding tube and to replace the oral ventilator keeping Jahi's heart beating with a tracheal tube — surgical procedures that would stabilize Jahi if she is moved to a facility willing to keep caring for her.


Children's Hospital of Oakland spokesman Sam Singer gives an update on the condition of Jahi McM …
Christopher Dolan, the lawyer for Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, said he received the news as he tried to confirm the conditions under which the hospital would have allowed a visiting doctor and nail down the long-term care facility that might accept the girl as a patient. Dolan said he has been talking with the New Beginnings Community Center in Medford, N.Y., an outpatient client for people with traumatic brain injuries, and with an unnamed facility in Arizona.

The New York facility didn't immediately return calls seeking comment.

"They're speaking out of both sides of their mouths. They say one thing and we go down that road, and then they say something else," Dolan said of hospital officials. "The hospital said, 'Bring us a doctor' and we said, 'Tell us the conditions' and now, they've wasted a half a day of our time. We don't have much time."

Hospital spokesman Sam Singer said later: "This is academic. They have not produced a single physician."
http://news.yahoo.com/calif-family-struggles-surgeries-teen-093701946.html



I think that means Jahis family is screwed.
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!


Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Dakota

FORUM BITCH / Beloved Cunt
Bold Member!
The family of Terri Schiavo has joined the battle over Jahi McMath, a 13-year-old girl on life support who has been declared dead by doctors.

"Together with our team of experts, Terri's Network believes Jahi's case is representative of a very deep problem within the U.S. healthcare system -- particularly those issues surrounding the deaths of patients within the confines of hospital corporations, which have a vested financial interest in discontinuing life," the Terri Schiavo Life & Hope Network said in a prepared statement.

The organization said it has been overseeing the efforts of several groups to help get Jahi transferred out of Children's Hospital Oakland and brought "to a safe place."

Jahi's family said Tuesday it had found a facility in New York willing to take her. The Oakland hospital "refused to agree to allow us to proceed in that matter," Jahi's uncle Omari Sealey said.

The hospital denied the accusation.


"We have done everything to assist the family of Jahi McMath in their quest to take the deceased body of their daughter to another medical facility," hospital spokesman Sam Singer said.

"To date, they have been unwilling or unable to provide a physician to perform the procedures necessary, transportation, or a facility that would accept a dead person on a ventilator. Our hearts and thoughts go out to them in this tragic situation, but the statements being made by their attorney and some family members are misleading and untrue."

Family attorney Christopher Dolan had accused the hospital of being "hell bent" on ending Jahi's life.
[...]

The statement Wednesday about Jahi included a quote from Bobby Schindler, Terri Schiavo's brother and executive director of the organization.

"Families and individuals must make themselves aware of what so-called 'brain death' is and what it is not," he said.

"Every person needs to understand that medical accidents happen every day. Families and individuals must be more aware of the issue of accountability and patient rights."
http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/01/health/jahi-mcmath-girl-brain-dead/index.html
 

Don't like ads? Then help out the site and GO BOLD!

Staff online

Members online

Top