• You must be logged in to see or use the Shoutbox. Besides, if you haven't registered, you really should. It's quick and it will make your life a little better. Trust me. So just register and make yourself at home with like-minded individuals who share either your morbid curiousity or sense of gallows humor.
I wonder what, exactly, they mean by that?

I think what they mean is that the mother has had to agree that she takes the child's corpse away at her own "risk". She is convinced she is not dead because her heart is still beating, and the hospital would not let her take the corpse away without getting her to sign some sort of waiver that she cannot blame them when the heart stops beating, which as we all know it must, sooner or later.
 
It is bullshit it got this far. Now if anyone is declared brain dead their family can point to this case and demand the same treatment. And maybe make a cool 50 grand through the internet and delusional strangers.
 
It is bullshit it got this far. Now if anyone is declared brain dead their family can point to this case and demand the same treatment. And maybe make a cool 50 grand through the internet and delusional strangers.
Yep and that's exactly what will happen ..
 
She's probably going to enshrine it in Jahi's old bedroom and pretend she's still alive, even long after the ventilator can no longer keep her "alive".

Also, I'm betting the hospital sent her to the private ambulance on a transport ventilator, a much less expensive and sophisticated piece of equipment that's not designed for long-term use. I wonder if mama knows that she's screwed herself all over again, and that it won't be long now until all she has is a rotting corpse in her home. Poor Jahi deserves so much better.

Her mom is so crazy that I wouldn't put it past her to read up on the web and try to insert some kind of makeshift feeding tube herself, although it's more likely she'll start with attempts to spoon-feed the corpse.

Let the side show begin ..
 
He also said the girl's body had "deteriorated so badly" during her treatment at the hospital that the long-term prognosis for survival is not an optimistic one.
"She's in very bad shape," he said. "Right now, we don't know if she's going to make it."

[...]
Really? A dead body has deteriorated in a month?? You don't say!! And stop messing with words. She wasn't being TREATED at the hospital. Hospitals treat living people, not a dead body.

A FFS - she's not going to make it?? What freaking smart place you get schooled at there Mr. Lawyer?? She's not going to make it because she's already DEAD. And has been for nearly a month!! Quit playing with words and acting like she's a living being!!

Gah - I get it - the family is sad and not dealing with this well! Hell, I'd have a hard time letting go of one of my own too!! But at what point will the actually get it? She's got a death certificate. She was released by a coroner. She hasn't been fed. Her body wasn't even on life support!!

I think that they keep twisting their words up (the family) to keep a live, human factor going for all the bleeding hearts out there that actually think that this little girl is going to magically wake up. From being dead. They are trying to personalize her and it just keeps the ball rolling and rolling and rolling.

But I tell ya - the moment that Jahi actually 'dies' in the eyes of her family - the lawsuits are going to start rolling in again, making it look like she'd have survived if the hospital treated her better. Umh. Yeah.

And I hope that one day this lawyer realizes that he's really off his rocker taking a case like this. Who is going to actually take him seriously after this stunt??
You said everything I was going to say ..
This is fucking insane ..
 
Jahi went into cardiac arrest while recovering from surgery to fix severe sleep apnea, a condition where the sufferer's breath stops or becomes labored while sleeping. To help her, surgeons removed her tonsils and other parts of her nose and throat.

Dolan said procedures deemed necessary for a facility to take Jahi were not yet performed, including feeding and tracheotomy tubes, because other physical issues have arisen in the aftermath of her care at the hospital. He would not disclose what those issues were but said Jahi has been examined by independent doctors since her release.

Maybe they can't put in a feeding and tracheotomy tube because surgeons removed parts of her nose and throat, besides the fact that she's dead of course. Now what?
 
The 13-year-old California girl who was declared brain dead after a surgery is now in a facility where her family can take care of her, a place her uncle says that believes as much they do that she's alive.

Whoever they are, they're probably after the organs. Or else Mom has the body stashed at home in a bathtub full of ice(cream).

Three doctors have declared Jahi brain dead based on exams and tests showing no blood flow or electrical activity in either her cerebrum or the brain stem that controls breathing.

THREE different doctors? Try SIX -- two hospital-based, three independent, and one court-appointed.

The hospital refused to fit her with a feeding tube or a breathing tube that would help stabilize her during a move.

How the fuck do you "stabilize" a 3.5-week-old corpse? It doesn't get any more "stable" than death.

When the hospital refused to do the procedures and after weeks of court battles, the two sides reached an agreement, provided that Winkfield would be held responsible if her daughter went into cardiac arrest.
The hospital released Jahi to the coroner, who then released her into the custody of Winkfield, as per court order.

And if the girl's remains had gone into cardiac arrest while in the custody of the coroner, would the coroner have been responsible for performing CPR? Is the coroner even CPR certified? Were there breath mints on hand?

The family's lawyer, Christopher Dolan, said Jahi's condition suffered because of poor nutrition during her hospital stay. "We are very relieved she got safely to where she needed to be," he said.

I'd say the girl's nutrition only improved with death. (I suppose I'll be joining @Nell in Hell now.)

"She's in very bad shape," he said. "You would be too, if you hadn't had nutrition in 26 days and were a sick little girl to begin with."

I would like to test this hypothesis on certain members of the family.

Dolan asked for privacy for the caregivers.

travsd_noapplause_2.jpg
 
She is not deteriorating she fucking decomposing!

And while we are talking about wasting resources, does anyone know how much that specialized critical care team cost to transport said corpse? Get a "normal" ambulance bill and start adding zeros.

This is not a couple of vollies who had an extra hour in their day, these are paramedics with specialized training. Where I worked we had specialized MICU teams that did transports like this, and they had a significant level of extra training, I cannot tell you how much, I had no interest in MICU, I was NICU trained and certified and I know I had hours upon hours of extra training and we took a team from the NICU with us when we went on calls because preeemies are not "miniature humans" it's a whole nother ball of wax there.

Doesn't California have laws that allow you to commit someone involuntarily? They need to put this family in the psych ward for delusions and hallucinations!
 
so im kinda wondering a couple of things now. . . .1.) If and when the mother decides that her daughter has passed; how much longer is she going to keep her body wherever it is now? Maybe she will try and preserve the body (mummify) to keep her in her bedroom as part of a shrine. . . ?? And 2.) i wonder how the mother would define jahis state of condition now? Is she doing better yet? Has she sat up yet? Fluttered her eyes in answer to questions?? Lmao. The mom is delusional i completely agree. But still feel bad for the famlies loss. . . Mas o menos.
 
Ugh it's started already

The case of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old girl who was declared brain-dead after a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital Oakland, is now the centerpiece of a political fundraising effort aimed at lifting California's $250,000 cap for pain and suffering awards in medical malpractice cases.

Consumer Watchdog, a Southern California nonprofit that has teamed up with the state's trial lawyers on a proposed November ballot initiative to lift the limit, just sent out a mailer to supporters saying, "Hospitals like Children's actually have an incentive to let children like Jahi die.

"If children who are victims of medical negligence live, hospitals are on the hook for medical bills for life, which could be millions," the letter says.


The letter from Consumer Watchdog President Jamie Court asks for "whatever tax-deductible contribution you can make" to help with its "patient safety work" and to qualify the initiative to raise the malpractice limit.

The letter from Consumer Watchdog President Jamie Court asks for "whatever tax-deductible contribution you can make" to help with its "patient safety work" and to qualify the initiative to raise the malpractice limit.

The group's campaign isn't winning any applause, however, from the attorney who is representing Jahi's family free of charge.

Christopher Dolan supports the proposed initiative but said using the girl's case for fundraising is "a bad thing to do."

"This case is not about raising money for any type of initiative," he said. "It was about getting (Jahi's mother) the right to make choices over the life-and-death decisions concerning her child."

Dolan is past president and a current board member of Consumer Attorneys of California
, the prime group funding the ballot initiative to lift the limit on pain and suffering awards. Last summer, he co-authored an article for the group's in-house magazine branding the $250,000 cap "draconian, arbitrary and outdated."

Sam Singer, the PR crisis manager hired by Children's Hospital to deal with the Jahi case, called the Court group's fundraising letter "reprehensible."

"Their allegations against the hospital are fraudulent and misleading, based on conjecture and not on the facts," Singer said. "We believe the public will see the actions of these attorneys as dishonest, disreputable and heartless."


Court's reply: The heartless ones in this case are the hospital executives who "call a patient who is breathing a corpse in order to vindicate themselves."
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matie...th-case-used-as-Consumer-Watchdog-5123174.php
(more at the link)

The family of 13-year-old Jahi McMath may have succeeded in transferring the brain-dead teen from an Oakland hospital to undisclosed care facility, but medical experts say it's only a matter of time before not even machines can keep her blood flowing.

Bodies of the brain-dead have been maintained on respirators for months or in rare cases even years — and in a few other cases released to families.

But once cessation of all brain activity is confirmed, there is no recovery, said Rebecca S. Dresser, professor of law and ethics in medicine at Washington University in St. Louis, who served on a presidential bioethics council that in 2008 reaffirmed "whole-brain death" as legal death.

Brain cells die without blood flow and autopsies in such cases have shown that the brain liquefies.

[..]

At least three neurologists confirmed that Jahi was unable to breathe on her own, had no blood flow to her brain and had no sign of electrical activity.

[..]

Jahi's family — and their attorney, Christopher Dolan of San Francisco — have maintained that brain death is not death, that the girl might get better, and that the rights of Jahi's mother, Latasha Winkfield, to determine the medical course of action were violated.

But California law says the family had no right to make decisions about the ventilator, only a right to a "reasonably brief period of accommodation" after the declaration of brain death to "gather family or next of kin at the patient's bedside."

To experts, the case has raised no novel legal issues, but it has created a painful spectacle.

Arthur Caplan, director of the division of medical ethics at New York University Langone Medical Center, said the Jahi case could compel other families to "ultimately say, 'I'd like to take this body home and wait for a miracle.' That would be a public policy of disrespect for dead bodies."
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...imited-20140107,0,5429201.story#axzz2poNQLc00
 
Last edited:
I think a cap should be removed... that is really the jurisdiction of the judicial branch.
That said, I am sad to see the vultures swoop in for an opportunistic hot button case. (vultures... see what I did there on two fronts:smug:)
 
While I whole-heartedly agree that a rigorous investigation needs to be done by an impartial outside agency into what if anything the hospital did wrong, I don't think part of that needs to require turning this child's decomposing body into some freaky ass side show science project.
:sarcasm: I skimmed the above article but is the good Reverend Al or his sidekick Jesse there yet? The hospital did it because she was black I tell ya!:sarcasm:
 
I think a cap should be removed... that is really the jurisdiction of the judicial branch.
That said, I am sad to see the vultures swoop in for an opportunistic hot button case. (vultures... see what I did there on two fronts:smug:)

It's a California referendum that they won't be voting on until Nov. I don't know it if it will apply to previous cases. I also read that most likely the cap will be raised to $500,000.
They're just trying to use Jahi as a poster child.

The group's campaign isn't winning any applause, however, from the attorney who is representing Jahi's family free of charge.
Christopher Dolan supports the proposed initiative but said using the girl's case for fundraising is "a bad thing to do."
"This case is not about raising money for any type of initiative," he said. "It was about getting (Jahi's mother) the right to make choices over the life-and-death decisions concerning her child."
 
Whoever they are, they're probably after the organs.
@Teleute , those organs are useless at this point; they can't be transplanted, since they're non-functional and deteriorated and atrophied. Had the family signed off when the diagnosis of brain death was first confirmed, Jahi could have offered the gift of life to at least half a dozen very sick children, but her family's boundless selfishness wouldn't allow anything good to come of her death.
 
Really??!?!?! WTF
The family of California teenager Jahi McMath said her 'healing begins' today after doctors successfully fitted her body with breathing and feeding tubes.

Nailah Winkfield, her mother, claimed the 13-year-old’s body was fitted with a tracheostomy to her windpipe and a gastrostomy to her stomach this morning.

She said the procedure meant that her daughter was getting the nutrition she needed for the first time since she was declared brain dead a month ago.

It also meant that she could be 'kissed on the lips' without a ventilator tube being in the way.

A spokesman for family said: 'Doctors are optimistic that her condition has stabilized and that her health is improving from when she was taken from Children's Hospital Oakland.'

At first reports said that the condition of her body was worse than first thought due to lack of nutrition, and that an operation to secure feeding and breathing tubes was proving difficult.

But today the family posted that it had been carried out successfully and they were still hopeful she could heal.

Her mother posted: 'Jahi had surgery this morning and it was successful!! Now I can kiss her lips without that damn tube in the way and now she can get nutrition!!

'Thank you Lord! My child will heal. I believe it.'

Jahi’s sister added that she will be 'finally receiving nutrition' for the first time since December 8.

'We are praying for a strong recovery,' she wrote.

Despite the success of the operation, the family admitted that she remained in poor shape and her body has yet to be stabilized.

Chris Dolan, the lawyer who helped the family stop the hospital turning off Jahi's life support machine, hit back at criticism he had deceived a poor grieving family.

Mr Dolan had been accused of being 'heartless' by the hospital for having a 'reckless disregard for the truth' and perpetuating the 'hoax' that Jahi could recover.

'The whole thing about me giving them false hope is a construction of public relations because they needed a villain,' Mr Dolan said.


'Not only that but it is patronising to Jahi’s family if not bordering on racist: these minority people are being deceived by this white lawyer, it was they seemed to be saying.

'The family made the decision. This case was about who decides what happens to a child, the parents or doctors.

'I always said there was very little hope she will recover but this family needed to be able to fight for this girl,' he added.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tion-needs-declared-brain-dead-month-ago.html
 
Last edited:
Nailah Winkfield, her mother, claimed the 13-year-old’s body was fitted with a tracheostomy to her windpipe and a gastrostomy to her stomach this morning.

Does anyone really buy that these surgeries were performed, or do you suppose Mom's only saying so to make her "investors" feel like they're getting their money's worth?

Her mother posted: 'Jahi had surgery this morning and it was successful!! Now I can kiss her lips without that damn tube in the way and now she can get nutrition!!

Ugh, corpse breath! :vomit: Not only is Mom an attention whore, she's a fucking perv as well.

And Dolan wasn't manipulating any "poor grieving family." According to Uncle Omari, they were involved every step of the way, and Dolan only did as he was told.

Uncle Omari REALLY rubs me the wrong way. He's a body builder and evidently quite close to his sister (it appears they all lived together in Grandma's house before Mom remarried in 2012), and yet he was just one more family member to allow Jahi's morbid obesity to go totally unchecked.

But it's not much of a surprise that he would act as the family spokesperson, seeing what poor candidates the other family members would have made: Grandma has a nursing career to worry about, so she shouldn't be seen playing with dead things; Jahi's father had previously sued the city of Oakland and the Oakland PD, claiming his civil rights had been violated during an arrest; and Jahi's stepfather was recently sued by the federal government for defaulting on student loans. (There are only two Marvin Winkfields in the state of California, and the other one is his father.)

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2012cv05688/260539
http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuits/...-v-marvin-winkfield/official-court-documents/

Here's the latest from Mom, by the way:
scum_mum.png

 
She looks like a sweet kid, and it's just such a sad thing that happened to her. I just wish her family would let her go.
 
'Not only that but it is patronising to Jahi’s family if not bordering on racist: these minority people are being deceived by this white lawyer, it was they seemed to be saying.
There it is! I've been waiting for someone to throw down the race card. The only thing this side show mockery has been missing is Sharpton and his cronies. :facepalm:
 
One month after Jahi McMath entered Children's Hospital Oakland for surgery to treat sleep apnea -- and just days after she was taken out of the facility after a fierce legal battle -- her family says the teenager's health is improving as she receives nutrition, but medical experts say it is only a matter of time before her deteriorating organs give out.

"This is basically organ support; it's not life support," said Dr. Neal E. Slatkin, a neurologist and chief medical officer at San Jose's Hospice Of The Valley. "Her organs are alive, but she's not alive. Her organs are slowly dying. Her fate is written; it's just a question of when everything fails."
[...]

In a message sent Thursday, the family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, would not offer specific information on Jahi's condition.

"I am not the medical decision-maker," Dolan said. "I had a singular role which was to help the mother be able to make the choice on her own as to whether or not the daughter would continue on a ventilator."

However, the extent of her body's deterioration was detailed in a court filing last week by Heidi R. Flori, a critical care pediatrician at Children's Hospital. In the filing, Flori wrote that tissues under her skin were losing their elasticity, her muscles were contracting and blankets were needed to keep her at a constant temperature.

"This deterioration became inevitable the moment she died," Flori wrote. "Additional and more dramatic signs of the body's deterioration will continue to manifest over time, regardless of any procedures and regardless of any heroic measures that any facility might attempt."

According to Slatkin, it is possible that the nutrients she is receiving are supporting her deteriorating organs, but he echoed comments from previous doctors who have said no medical tools or procedures can bring back someone who has been declared brain-dead.

"Dead is dead. There aren't grades of dead," Slatkin said. "Anything that (the attorney) or the family may perceive as improvement does not indicate that she is alive in any way."
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking...-medical-experts-say-organ-failure-inevitable
 
Cross-posted on the Texas Keeps Dead Woman On Life Support To Preserve 14-week Fetus thread:


Ethicists criticize treatment of teen, Texas patient

The cases of two young women — a California teen and a pregnant Texas mother, both on ventilators after devastating injuries — have shone a spotlight on difficult end-of-life issues, which can be especially painful when tragedy leads a previously healthy person to be declared brain dead.

In both cases, families disagree with the way that hospitals have treated their loved ones. The teen's family wants her kept on the ventilator; the Texas mom's husband wants his wife's ventilator removed.

The stories of Jahi McMath, 13, and Marlise Munoz, 33, are complicated not just by grief, but by the public's lack of understanding of the medical possibilities for people with little to no brain activity, says Arthur Caplan, head of the division of bioethics at NYU Langone Medical Center in New York City.

The California child, McMath, was pronounced brain-dead by the coroner's office, after suffering rare complications from a Dec. 9 tonsillectomy. Unlike patients in a vegetative state, who have some brain activity, people declared brain-dead are no longer alive, says Laurence McCullough, a professor at the Center for Medical Ethics and Health Policy at Baylor College of Medicine in Houston. The term "brain death" simply refers to the method of determining death, he says.

By moving the lungs up and down, a ventilator can "give the appearance of life," Caplan says. That also can stimulate a heart beat. Once the machines are disconnected, however, breathing and circulation stop.

Jahi's parents, unwilling to disconnect her from machines that keep her heart beating artificially, have transferred their daughter from Children's Hospital Oakland to an unnamed facility, where she has had one tube inserted in her throat and another into her stomach to pump in nutrition.

The family's attorney, Christopher Dolan, says Children's Hospital made it more difficult for Jahi's family's to process her loss.

"If the facility had been more compassionate and less aggressive and had realized that you don't do this to somebody at Christmas, maybe the family would have had more time to process this," Dolan says. "This is the same hospital that they think made an error with their child, who was then rushing them out the door. They thought the hospital had let them down. ... They just need some time."

[...]

The family, who are Christian, is still hoping for a miracle, Dolan says. He acknowledged that he has been criticized for giving the family false hope.

"Is that unethical? Then is church unethical?" Dolan asked in an interview. "A huge part of our nation on the 25th of December was praying to a baby who was born as a miracle, who healed people as a miracle and who died and was resurrected as a miracle."

Jahi's condition is very different from that of Terri Schiavo, who died in 2005 after years in a permanent vegetative state, McCullough says. Although Schiavo had limited brain functioning, she was alive.

Decisions about Schiavo's health care were far less clear-cut than those involving Jahi, Caplan says. Only Schiavo's brain stem — the lower part of the brain that controls basic functions such as breathing and swallowing — was active. She did not need a ventilator, because she could breathe on her own. But she could not think, feel, sense or be aware, Caplan says.

Because Schiavo's family disagreed about what her wishes would have been, they fought a lengthy court battle over whether to remove her feeding tube. Her husband eventually prevailed. The feeding tube was removed, and she died two weeks later.

[...]

According to the Uniform Determination of Death Act, adopted by most states, death is defined as "irreversible cessation of circulatory and respiratory functions" or "irreversible cessation of all functions of the entire brain, including the brain stem."

There are no ethical issues in the care of someone who has been declared brain-dead, because the patient is now a corpse, McCullough says. In Jahi's case, "orders should have been immediately written to discontinue all life support," says McCullough, who has no personal knowledge of Jahi's case. "The family should have been allowed to spend some time with the body if they wished. And then her body should have been sent to the morgue. That is straightforward. There is no ethical debate about that."

Both Caplan and McCullough were critical of the unnamed medical facility that agreed to put Jahi's body on a ventilator. "What could they be thinking?" McCullough says. "Their thinking must be disordered, from a medical point of view. ... There is a word for this: crazy."

Caplan agrees: "You can't really feed a corpse."

McCullough says he worries about the emotional, spiritual and financial damage that the parents will suffer. "Insurance doesn't pay for dead people," he says. He also worries about the psychological effect of seeing the girl's body, which is already said to be deteriorating, continue to break down. "Are there some living cells in the body? Not all the cells die at once. It takes time. But her body will start to break down and decay. It's a matter of when, not whether."

Jahi's new doctors are "trying to ventilate and otherwise treat a corpse," Caplan said. "She is going to start to decompose."

Dolan says that Jahi's family understands that her body could deteriorate. "They're not blind to these realities," Dolan says. "The mom has said that if her daughter is decaying, if she is suffering, that she will pull the vent."

FULL ARTICLE: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ticize-treatment-brain-dead-patients/4394173/
 
Dolan says that Jahi's family understands that her body could deteriorate. "They're not blind to these realities," Dolan says. "The mom has said that if her daughter is decaying, if she is suffering, that she will pull the vent."

Huh? If the Mom is suffering, he must mean. Because we ALL know that a dead body can't suffer......Jahi CAN'T suffer when she's already dead. These people need to stop attributing 'living person' feelings and responses to a dead child! They are just dragging this out way too long, and their choices of wording is confusing things to the point where people are still believing that this child will wake up!
 
Back
Top