• You must be logged in to see or use the Shoutbox. Besides, if you haven't registered, you really should. It's quick and it will make your life a little better. Trust me. So just register and make yourself at home with like-minded individuals who share either your morbid curiousity or sense of gallows humor.
It is not being mentioned on the TELEVISION NETWORK, which I have been viewing all day. There are no powerful visual images of the young Mr. Begic. There are no stories from his family about the profound loss they are suffering. There is no twenty-four hour live coverage of his death.

I doubt there will be because the perps are 15 and 16 yo kids. The rabid hate just will not be there because of that, it will be more shock that kids could go so wrong. And if you would just fucking LOOK at the video linked, you will see them talking to his wife. They will probably get more family/friend interviews in the next day or two.
 
And where are Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the gang??? Certainly not in St. Louis proper voicing their collective dismay...
President Barack Obama will meet with controversial black pastor Rev Al Sharpton on Monday at the White House,
Sharpton, a community-organizer-turned-minister-turned-TV-host, is a frequent White House visitor and has appeared in Ferguson. On Sunday he preached at the St. Louis church where Michael Brown's funeral service was held.

'The fight ain't over,' he told a capacity crowd.

But on the nights following a grand jury's decision not to indict Officer Wilson, rioters burned buildings and looted stores while shots rang out. Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon was criticized later for not deploying the Missouri National Guard, a fully militarized force, in downtown Ferguson.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2855715/Obama-hold-White-House-meetings-Ferguson.html
 
I think the outrage is gonna come. People are just getting word of it.
Sadly, I disagree.
ETA It already came from the Bosnian community there. I don't think it's going any further than that.
 
Sadly, I disagree.
ETA It already came from the Bosnian community there. I don't think it's going any further than that.

Nope, and honestly, while tragic, I don't see why it would.

While I think the Brown shooting was the wrong horse to attach this buggy to, cops do shoot unarmed black men at a much higher rate than any other demographic, so it can be argued that the outrage over the Brown shooting represents the outrage over a more systemic and pervasive issue.

Teens taking out Bosnians isn't exactly an epidemic.
 
Odd...I haven't heard anything about this on CNN. Nor has it been mentioned on the NBC, CBS or ABC nightly news. I suppose it doesn't fit their narrative of "justified outrage" committed by negroes.

It happened around 1 AM this morning, so no, it hasn't been on the nightly news yet.:facepalm:
 
Last edited:
Nope, and honestly, while tragic, I don't see why it would.

While I think the Brown shooting was the wrong horse to attach this buggy to, cops do shoot unarmed black men at a much higher rate than any other demographic, so it can be argued that the outrage over the Brown shooting represents the outrage over a more systemic and pervasive issue.

Teens taking out Bosnians isn't exactly an epidemic.
U bring up a good point. And while this may not be the correct thread, I have a question about that statement. How is it possible that any study into something like that is not tainted? I see it this way. If u are examining total number of unarmed people shot by police and simply breaking the numbers down by race, I can see that. But then I think, how many were confronted and not shot, by race. If, for the sake of argument, 1 cop confronts and unholsters his weapon, in one year, 20 black men, 40 white men, and 5 Hispanic men. He shoots and kills 2 black men, 3 white men and 1 Hispanic man. Statistically, more white men were shot and killed, right? So statistically, are police put into that position more frequently by minorities? Just food for thought.
And if it didn't make sense, I apologize ahead of time.
 
So statistically, are police put into that position more frequently by minorities? Just food for thought.

Well, yes, and no. It's... complicated, and doesn't get near the attention it deserves.

Yes, police are put into that position most frequently by black men.

And, yes, police put themselves into that position most frequently in relation to black men.

I believe two things are true: Black men put themselves into a position to be shot by police the most, but also that cops are most likely to abuse their power with black men, as society questions their story the least when it is a black man involved.

Solving the rate of black victimization by cops requires a two-pronged approach that the black community is picking up most quickly on one: questioning the cop's story. But equal effort needs to be put toward reversing the black male as the usual suspect. Cops shake down black folk more often than anyone else because they get hits more often than with anyone else.
 
Teen suspect charged as adult in hammer beating death of South City man
http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Homi...-south-St-Louis--284248091.html#ixzz3KhUj0eAX

On Monday afternoon, the Circuit Attorney's Office said the 17-year-old is identified as Robert Mitchell. Mitchell, who is being charged as an adult, is being charged with murder and armed criminal action. It is not yet known if the other two suspects will be charged as adults or juveniles.

Read more: http://www.kmov.com/news/crime/Homi...-south-St-Louis--284248091.html#ixzz3KhXQ3p1U
 
CNN is showing the "Hands up, Walk out" so-called protests live. There is no mention of Mr. Begic, nor has there been in any meaningful way. This story (Ferguson protest) is the lead on Jake Tapper. It is labeled "Breaking News." This just after a black female reporter was on the air saying that woman beating football player, and negroe, Ray Rice..."deserves another chance." Apparently...she does not think that former Ferguson Police Officer Darren Wilson deserves even a fair chance.

Fuck Ray Rice. Probably the only time I agree with you on a post, Pete. Officer Wilson, deserves another chance. He was, I believe scared for his life. Janay Rice SHOULD be scared for her life.
 
Give those little bastards the death penalty.

Yeah I don't see kids who kill people with hammers turning into functional adults.

This poor guy comes here from Bosnia to get away from violence, then dies a violent death. I think this story is very tragic, even if people don't seem to care :(
 
Stats:

I don't know if this will add anything to the convo or not, and unfortunately, I can't c & p the .pdf pages for this from my phone right now, but:

According to the DOJ's most recent national, statistical breakdown of overall homicides by race, while comprising only 12.6 - 12.9% of the entire U.S. population, the homicide rate among African Americans, or "blacks" is a full 6 times higher than the homicide rate among Caucasian Americans, or "whites".

And, in contrast, within that same percentage of the U.S. population, the homicide offender rate for blacks is 7 times higher than for whites - another disproportionately high ratio.

In the most recently published 10 yr. period:

- 84% of "whites" were killed by whites, and,
- 93% of "blacks" were killed by blacks.


In case anyone's wondering, these stats aren't broken down into racial categories for deaths via LE officers b/c they are not considered offenders, though their respective races are included in the homicide victims profile. The above is based on mandatory, national LE reporting statistics.

@Athena 's posted the comprehensive .pdf on the DOJ's most current reports @ least once recently, maybe more (thx again Athena!), but again, it's easy to google or site search this wealth of statistical info. and more for anyone interested.

So, when thinking objectively about interracial homicides, it's important to consider both the actual % of the U.S. population, as well as the ratios of both victims and offenders within these two particular ethnic groups.

*Ugh, as you can tell, I've personally never liked Caucasians and African Americans being deliberately reduced to false, opposite "skin colors", on the census spectrum while everyone else gets to be an ethnicity. Humans don't come in "black & white", crayons do.
 
Last edited:
Fuck Ray Rice. Probably the only time I agree with you on a post, Pete. Officer Wilson, deserves another chance. He was, I believe scared for his life. Janay Rice SHOULD be scared for her life.

Since it came up, Wilson does not deserve a second chance, in my opinion. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's still a shitty cop who lost control of a routine stop in record time. I mean, best case scenario, someone died because of his ineptitude. That's not the kind of cop we want on the street. I'm glad he resigned, and I hope he goes and gets himself a degree in a less lethal field.

Give those little bastards the death penalty.

That'd be illegal, ma'am.

Yeah I don't see kids who kill people with hammers turning into functional adults.

You'd be surprised by who can turn into productive adults with supervision, structure and a chance at an education. In situations like this involving minors, there tends to be a Lord of the Flies style ring leader, and those who follow him (or her) are quite likely to respond positively to rehabilitation.
 
Since it came up, Wilson does not deserve a second chance, in my opinion. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's still a shitty cop who lost control of a routine stop in record time. I mean, best case scenario, someone died because of his ineptitude. That's not the kind of cop we want on the street. I'm glad he resigned, and I hope he goes and gets himself a degree in a less lethal field.



That'd be illegal, ma'am.



You'd be surprised by who can turn into productive adults with supervision, structure and a chance at an education. In situations like this involving minors, there tends to be a Lord of the Flies style ring leader, and those who follow him (or her) are quite likely to respond positively to rehabilitation.
You're wrong, cop did nothing wrong, attacked by a much larger stronger angry criminal he
(criminal Brown 6'4" 300lbs) Cop defended himself, I'm sure you being the great marshal arts expert the female incarnation of Bruce Lee, could've easily subdued a much larger angry Browne but the rest of us are just mere mortals
Kids that start out murdering people for fun, don't become model citizens later in life
But they get fake religion in jail and some become model prisoners
and they did murder for fun, he did not provoke them
 
Last edited:
You're wrong, cop did nothing wrong, attacked by a much larger stronger angry criminal he
(criminal Brown 6'4" 300lbs) Cop defended himself

Cops get attacked by larger individuals on a regular basis. Wilson is reported to be 6'4", 210lbs, and as a cop, he is presumably trained in basic hand-to-hand combat. Was Brown larger? At 292lbs, yeah. Stronger? Debatable.

He stopped two young people for obstructing traffic and ended up killing someone when all was said and done. I'm not saying it was unjustified in the moment, I'm just saying better cops avoid that outcome every day in this country.

Kids that start out murdering people for fun, don't become model citizens later in life
But they all get fake religion in jail and some become model prisoners
and they did murder for fun, he did not provoke them

They absolutely can, Biteme. It's long, but worth a read.
 
You cannot really see anything, but here is a video taken after the attack while they are taking Zemir to the hospital.

 
Since it came up, Wilson does not deserve a second chance, in my opinion. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's still a shitty cop who lost control of a routine stop in record time. I mean, best case scenario, someone died because of his ineptitude. That's not the kind of cop we want on the street. I'm glad he resigned, and I hope he goes and gets himself a degree in a less lethal field.



That'd be illegal, ma'am.



You'd be surprised by who can turn into productive adults with supervision, structure and a chance at an education. In situations like this involving minors, there tends to be a Lord of the Flies style ring leader, and those who follow him (or her) are quite likely to respond positively to rehabilitation.

I do agree about the "followers" possibly being able to be rehabilitated, but the "ring leader" with conduct disorder is a long shot.
 
The woman recording the video Hammer attack video says the blacks are running up and down the street saying fuck the white people kill the white people, hmmm i wonder what would happen if a white person did that. I hope these animals go away for life! And they should be charged with a hate crime in addition to the brutal murder.
 
Keepalowprofile said: ▲
Give those little bastards the death penalty.



That'd be illegal, ma'am.

Right, I know and its a crying shame. Society has the right to expect to live safely and the ass holes that perpetrate such crimes should be gouged out of society. The percentage of rehab is so low, I say: why bother?
 
Right, I know and its a crying shame. Society has the right to expect to live safely and the ass holes that perpetrate such crimes should be gouged out of society. The percentage of rehab is so low, I say: why bother?

The percentage of rehab is so low because rehab is a joke in this country, and juveniles who are sentenced as adults often don't get any. I would also encourage you to read the material I linked Biteme to.

But, if you want to talk about rights, it is the Constitution itself that protects juveniles from execution. It was ruled unconstitutional by SCOTUS not terribly long ago.

Now, we are the only country on the planet that has LWOP for juvenile offenders... and still one of the highest crime rates in Western civilization. Society does have the right to expect to live safely. Unfortunately, lots of painfully short-sighted people think the answer is more prisons and longer sentences, even though longer sentences has had zero impact on juvenile crime rates.

Seems to me the millions upon millions of dollars that expanding the death penalty to juveniles would cost would be better spent on education that will prevent crime in the first place. Or perhaps tax payer funded birth control. Preventing these mothers from having the children they fail to supervise seems most ideal. But Christian conservatives have such a problem paying for birth control (would much rather pay for incarceration down the road, it appears, "God's will" or something), they're even attacking private insurers' right to cover it.

There are much more civilized options than the execution of juvenile offenders. Sure, not much we can do about these ones, but we're not putting anywhere near sufficient effort into prevention.
 
but we're not putting anywhere near sufficient effort into prevention.

I'll go along with that.

But... When one has reached such barbaric levels its highly unlikely they will ever be able to meld into society and become safe enough to be trusted not to re-offend.
Like I said earlier: Society should have the right to not have to live elbow to elbow with someone like that.
Our system is a fractured one. The problem isn't exactly the non gov funded birth control. Most of these mothers would not choose bc because the welfare system is so rewarding.

All that being said, Compassion isn't something that can be taught.
 
But... When one has reached such barbaric levels its highly unlikely they will ever be able to meld into society and become safe enough to be trusted not to re-offend.

Then how, exactly, do you explain the low rate of re-offense among juvenile murderers?

Like I said earlier: Society should have the right to not have to live elbow to elbow with someone like that.

Our Constitution provides rights to offenders as well. Those rights must be balanced against those of society, or we're North Korea.

Our system is a fractured one. The problem isn't exactly the non gov funded birth control. Most of these mothers would not choose bc because the welfare system is so rewarding.

Do you know someone who has had children as part of a calculated plan to collect that "rewarding" welfare? Because I lived in the hood for four years - where welfare recipients are also rockin' Fendi (frequently knock-offs, BTW), and I never once met a woman who had children so that they could collect welfare. Didn't even meet one who got pregnant accidentally and was like, "I'm not worried, the State's going to take care of me." And I live in a state with one of the most generous welfare programs in the nation. Still, our average for time spent on welfare is 18 months. Do people take advantage of it? Sure. But those people you occasionally hear about who've been on welfare for a decade are less than 1%. They don't even come close to representing the average welfare recipient.

Seems to me, you've been steeped in some urban myth, my dear. Most welfare recipients are the working poor.

But then there's the fact that, when free, long-term birth control (Depo, IUDs, etc.) is made available in communities, teenage pregnancy has been reported to drop by 80%. That's HUGE.

What do you want to bet the mothers of these young men had babies young?

All that being said, Compassion isn't something that can be taught.

I'm going to have to disagree here, too. There are some people who can't be taught compassion (sociopaths, some people with disabilities, some people on the autism spectrum, etc.), but unless something's wrong with you, that's precisely what happens. We have to actively teach children to share, to not hit, to play inclusively, to not bully and tease, etc. This is teaching compassion, and every decent parent who's existed has had to do it. If left to our own devices, we're evil little shits. Any one of us.

Believing it's too late for these kids is simply not supported by research (again, that thing I linked Biteme to).
 
Actually I'm going to be forced to disagree with you here Athena, at least on the welfare part. In the state this occurred in (Missouri) the average welfare recipient makes approx $26k a year and does not pay taxes. I work 4 12s in a dangerous shithole and make $30k and am taxed. So technically, I could quit my job, sit on my ass, and make just as much, if not more, than I do now. Plus I get a free cell phone and XX minutes per month. I would also qualify for Section 8 housing, so I only pay a percentage of my rent. Then if I get pregnant, now I qualify for WIC! Missouri ranks 30th in the nation as far as welfare benefits. Sounds like a sweet deal to me.....I believe it is indeed, a flawed system.
 
@Keepalowprofile , commented: "Compassion isn't something that can be taught."

I have to respectfully disagree. Actually, it can, and it's taught all the time. One, small example is that the vast majority of Aspy kids along w/the other Autistic Spectrum Disorders are born w/o the normal emotional spectrum incl. compassion, empathy, sympathy, a "conscience", etc. Between myself, his dad, and years of education and treatment, my son is now one of the most kind, considerate, compassionate people I know. Through education and training, his brain built the missing neural pathways and made the connections as he developed a full spectrum of emotion.


Argh. I wish I could think of the name of the "Lockup" episode I just watched on MSNBC this past w/e on another new teaching program being piloted/implemented in certain prisons. It's spot on with our sorely inept, almost non-existent, criminal rehab system in this country.

In addition to using a more "holistic" education/teaching approach to help violent criminals understand their motivations and actions (instead of piss poor therapy, addiction-only groups, and/or throwing a bible at them), they also spend a solid 40 hr. week on teaching compassion, empathy, victim impact, etc. Additionally, they have violent crime vics and family members of horribly murdered children and adults come in and describe how the crime affected their psyches, their fams., and their lives.

There's quite a bit of study-related, and statistical info. on reoffender rates showing punitive punishment alone doesn't and hasn't worked, even with a great many struggling mental health/therapy programs, and psychiatrists for meds available. Of course, a lot of it still opining and fighting an ineffective, antiquated system, too, both pro and con.

The rehab issue is *finally* starting to trend with measurable results. There's too many articles to post, but here's three easy reads.

This one's not standardized stats, but has good info. on Rehab. vs. Punishment alone. It has lots of great linked info., too.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...ductive/punishment-fails-rehabilitation-works

This one's a good, informational quick read, and has a great quote - "We used to lock up people we were afraid of. Now, we lock up people we're mad at."

http://m.kalw.org/?utm_referrer=https://www.google.com/#mobile/19284

And this one discusses 'Shrinking prison populations in Texas (of all states!) due to Rehab programs that work.'

http://m.statesman.com/news/news/st...-population-shrinks-as-rehabilitatio-1/nRNRY/

For anyone interested, just google, "Prison Rehab Programs That Work."
 
Back
Top