dougxthexwookie
Active Member
The very worst part is they BOTH denied responsability and they BOTH tried to appeal the murder charge.
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- Thread starter DamagedGoods
- Start date
The very worst part is they BOTH denied responsability and they BOTH tried to appeal the murder charge.
DarkPrincess
Trusted Member
Of course they did.
Runecire
Back again to the Den of Iniquity
It is no wonder she would not let the father near the little girl, he might have fought to take her away.
When you keep a child out of the world, locked away in your house, it is easy to understand why no one would miss this girl when she was gone. The bouncy, outgoing, friendly ones that the entire neighborhood knows are the ones who get noticed when they are no longer there. I am disappointed with the boy, but I can understand since it is likely he suffered in a similar way throughout his life.
RIP Phoenix. You are far out of reach of these monsters now.
When you keep a child out of the world, locked away in your house, it is easy to understand why no one would miss this girl when she was gone. The bouncy, outgoing, friendly ones that the entire neighborhood knows are the ones who get noticed when they are no longer there. I am disappointed with the boy, but I can understand since it is likely he suffered in a similar way throughout his life.
RIP Phoenix. You are far out of reach of these monsters now.
dougxthexwookie
Active Member
it regards to her stepbrother, I've read that the day that Phoenix died he went home and told his mom "my dad killed someone", Whether that was the same day/week/month or much later, i don't know.
lucky
Active Member
Just when I think that I can't read any story more horrifying than the last...
I've had to take 3 breaks from reading this thread, and I can't stop crying for what that little girl went through. I will NEVER understand how a kid goes back to a parent that was at one time unfit, and is then left to fend for themselves... what fucking chance does a preschooler stand to be able to protect themselves against these monsters.... and no one cares enough to check on them? No one cares enough to make sure that baby is safe? It's fucking pathetic. This angel deserved so much more... to go from a loving foster home to this? I could scream right now.... I am so fucking angry.
RIP sweet Phoenix. xoxo
I've had to take 3 breaks from reading this thread, and I can't stop crying for what that little girl went through. I will NEVER understand how a kid goes back to a parent that was at one time unfit, and is then left to fend for themselves... what fucking chance does a preschooler stand to be able to protect themselves against these monsters.... and no one cares enough to check on them? No one cares enough to make sure that baby is safe? It's fucking pathetic. This angel deserved so much more... to go from a loving foster home to this? I could scream right now.... I am so fucking angry.
RIP sweet Phoenix. xoxo
buggysmommy
Well-Known Member
I am once again-completely enamored...
Words just escape me...
:dong:
Words just escape me...
:dong:
Marv
Trusted Member
This is just so heartbreaking.
Dragged away from her happy foster home and put back with these sick fucks. Left there to be tortured, forgotten by everyone who was supposed to be fighting her corner!
Beaten, choked, abused, shot with a fucking pellet gun. Left to die cold, alone and broken on a concrete floor. And then buried in a shallow grave near a rubbish dump.
No punishment, torture or agony is enough for these bastards. I hope they suffer every second, of every day, of every year for the rest of their stinking, worthless lives.
And belive me, if I had my way the rest of their lives would be extremely short, and exquisitely painful
RIP little Phoenix xx
Dragged away from her happy foster home and put back with these sick fucks. Left there to be tortured, forgotten by everyone who was supposed to be fighting her corner!
Beaten, choked, abused, shot with a fucking pellet gun. Left to die cold, alone and broken on a concrete floor. And then buried in a shallow grave near a rubbish dump.
No punishment, torture or agony is enough for these bastards. I hope they suffer every second, of every day, of every year for the rest of their stinking, worthless lives.
And belive me, if I had my way the rest of their lives would be extremely short, and exquisitely painful
RIP little Phoenix xx
AngelFire
Your dream or your nightmare. You decide.
My heart is broken right now. I am a mom, like most are here in the forums and on DD, I couldn't continue to read the accounts of abuse. No real mother can read this story and not feel affected. I read these things and I fall apart. Damn it where and how does a person end up with no feelings? I cry for these children, and I pray for their souls and for the ones that are left living, and they aren't even mine. These stories leave me with so many questions, that will never have answers. I wish I could just take all these children home with me, and give them a chance at life. No one gave this baby a chance to learn love and happiness. She died NEVER knowing LOVE. That is tragic...:dontknow:
Silvahalo
Bite My Seraphim Sass
I wish you great misery child killer. Sob, please do, your cries will go unheeded just like that of Phoenix. You tortured, violated and killed little Phoenix then buried her in a dump yard. Rot. I hope your body withers with disease until your dying day. Then rot in Hell.
Rest in peace precious Phoenix.
I know exactly what you mean. I think... were I her real father, the murdering bastards wouldn't last too long after they got paroled.
Silvahalo
Bite My Seraphim Sass
additional picture
Found this picture of Phoenix, depicting her much closer to the age in which she died.....age 5 yo.. Baby Phoenix, somber and alone...
Prose for Phoenix
Beautiful, glorious red bird of fire you come forth through
your ashes a new bird shedding the old self which no
longer burdens you.
You embrace your new strength and
fly to the heights of the sky to the city of the sun
for your immortality.
Embrace yourself for you are a child of
the sun and will live eternal through birth, death, and
renewal...the spirit never dies.
~For Phoenix Sinclair a treasure and a blessing....you will not be forgotten.
Found this picture of Phoenix, depicting her much closer to the age in which she died.....age 5 yo.. Baby Phoenix, somber and alone...
Prose for Phoenix
Beautiful, glorious red bird of fire you come forth through
your ashes a new bird shedding the old self which no
longer burdens you.
You embrace your new strength and
fly to the heights of the sky to the city of the sun
for your immortality.
Embrace yourself for you are a child of
the sun and will live eternal through birth, death, and
renewal...the spirit never dies.
~For Phoenix Sinclair a treasure and a blessing....you will not be forgotten.
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SqueakyClean
Active Member
Why do I keep reading this stuff? :dong:
I can't even get mad - I just want to sob.
I would give anything - anything - if there were something I could do to rescue these children. The idea these pieces of shit could be out in 25 years make me want to throw up.
I can't even get mad - I just want to sob.
I would give anything - anything - if there were something I could do to rescue these children. The idea these pieces of shit could be out in 25 years make me want to throw up.
scorpiogirl
Well-Known Member
This is one of those times where my head is filled with torturous murdurous things that I could do to these ......uhg,,, out of words.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...14/sinclair_appeal_091014/20091014?hub=Canada
Five-year-old Phoenix Sinclair
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Marv
Trusted Member
There didn't need to be a lock on the door to keep her down there! This poor child was so cowed by the horrible abuse and torture she had to endure that she would have been far too scared to venture out if she had been ordered to stay there by her tormentors!!!!!
FUCKING LAWYERS!!! I don't know how they can live with themselves when they make their money defending stinking pond-scum bastards like these two!!!
I'm so absolutely furious now after reading that! If their sentence gets reduced it will be a fucking TRAVESTY!
biteme
The Rev, Molon labe
No justice in life, no justice in death it would really suck
I would love to play chicken with Kematch and McKay
choke them until they pass out throw them around the room and when they come to, start over I'd be more than happy to play with them, till they fucken die
first, we kill all the lawyers... it's official now, i want to kill people. i don't know if i would, given the chance, but i want to. i want to kill these two a lot. i want to kill them the meanest way i can think of; bring them screaming to the point of death, then haul them back. then do it again and again; if i get tired, i'll let someone else take over. i would torture them for five years, as they did to this baby, then maybe, just maybe, i'd kill them. or maybe then i'd put them in solitary for the rest of their lives. one bunk and a toilet. that's all.
oddball
Active Member
I am so fucking upset right now, i am crying and i feel sick to my stomach, how could anyone do those things? That poor baby girl deserved to be loved, i wish i could just hold that sweet child and take away the horrible things that happened to her.
i cannot imagine what she must have felt like, the deep saddness that she must have felt, god i fucking hate that someone could do that to her. no child deserves that.
how can those monsters even go on with life, they seriously have to be sociopaths if they can live with the things they did to a innocent baby.
i cannot imagine what she must have felt like, the deep saddness that she must have felt, god i fucking hate that someone could do that to her. no child deserves that.
how can those monsters even go on with life, they seriously have to be sociopaths if they can live with the things they did to a innocent baby.
TDH
Active Member
this child was being abused SEVERELY..it doesnt have to be a case of sexual abuse for a child to be scared out of thier wits to be doing that..of course thats going to happen!!! fuking hell....
I truly feel sorry for this poor baby and all she has gone through.
as for the mom and her bf...their selfish fuking pricks...only worried about themselves.
this kind of story is so enraging.
I truly feel sorry for this poor baby and all she has gone through.
as for the mom and her bf...their selfish fuking pricks...only worried about themselves.
this kind of story is so enraging.
badfish76
Trusted Member
I have one hell of a physical constitution and seldom do I feel ill when I read things but this thread had my stomach churning!
It is disgusting what these animals did to this baby!!!
Death is too good for them but when Carolinablue gets tired of choking and throwing them I would gladly take over for awhile!
It is disgusting what these animals did to this baby!!!
Death is too good for them but when Carolinablue gets tired of choking and throwing them I would gladly take over for awhile!
sheevaa
Trusted Member
This one is local for me too. I can't even properly put into words how this made me feel when I read it at first. Although we read this stuff day in and day out, It's so easy to think "well, sucks for them". When you really stop to put yourself in that person, or those children's places, it really tears you up.
I know I'm still human when this sort of stuff makes my stomach turn and my eyes fill with tears. What is missing in these people that they don't do the same?
I know I'm still human when this sort of stuff makes my stomach turn and my eyes fill with tears. What is missing in these people that they don't do the same?
curethispain
Active Member
This is one of those that just makes me want to fucking scream. My oldest is getting ready to turn six...and I get angry at myself just for yelling at her too much. This girl was precious, as they all are...but something about this one is breaking my heart a little more. Maybe its the details, maybe its the "hitting close to home" aspect as far as her age goes. Maybe its because I know that she was tortured...and there isn't a chance that she didn't suffer.
I will never begin to understand what goes through someone's head when they do these things. They shot her with a fucking pellet gun? Where does this thought ever even enter your mind?
The one thing that I really take away from this site is knowing that 1. I am not a horrible mother even though I think so sometimes (bipolar with a hell of a lot of self-esteem issues), 2. no matter how frustrated I get, I do not want to be one of these people. It helps me remember that nothing a child/baby can do warrants any kind of abuse, verbal, physical...or the other kind I can't even bring myself to say because its so wrong. No baby deserves this...none.
I will never begin to understand what goes through someone's head when they do these things. They shot her with a fucking pellet gun? Where does this thought ever even enter your mind?
The one thing that I really take away from this site is knowing that 1. I am not a horrible mother even though I think so sometimes (bipolar with a hell of a lot of self-esteem issues), 2. no matter how frustrated I get, I do not want to be one of these people. It helps me remember that nothing a child/baby can do warrants any kind of abuse, verbal, physical...or the other kind I can't even bring myself to say because its so wrong. No baby deserves this...none.
Bay
Well-Known Member
Interesting commentary:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/.../20/david-asper-prisoner-in-her-own-home.aspx
Many are wondering why Manitoba’s Court of Appeal would “waste its time†last week on killers Samantha Kematch and Karl McKay. As far as the public is concerned, Kematch and McKay should probably feel lucky that the rule of law has kept the mob from imposing its own form of justice.
Let me offer my explanation. As it turns out, useful legal principles sometimes can be gleaned from close judicial scrutiny of even the most disturbing case.
Kematch and McKay are the two characters whom a jury found guilty of killing Kematch’s five-year-old daughter Phoenix Sinclair. Mere words can’t do justice in describing the sordid tale of abuse and neglect that befell this poor child. It’s beyond shocking.
In deciding guilt, the jury determined that the killing occurred while the two had forcibly confined the young victim in the basement of her home. Under the Criminal Code, this meant that the defendants fell in one of the categories that permit a finding of first-degree murder — the most serious crime in the Criminal Code. (Other categories of first-degree murder include killing a victim through planning and premeditation, killing a victim while committing sexual assault, terrorism, and killing a police officer.)
One of the arguments advanced in the appeal proceedings was that there had not been any forcible confinement, and therefore the first-degree murder conviction should not stand. In particular, the defence contended that the five-year-old victim was not forced to remain in the basement of her home but, rather, voluntarily sought refuge there from the abuse. According to this argument, the crime could only have been second-degree murder or manslaughter.
Such distinctions may seem arcane. But they reflect important moral decisions that Canadian legislators made in regard to the degrees of malice and evil that inform different types of murder. Moreover, the issue has real-life ramifications for defendants. A conviction for any of these crimes imposes a life sentence. However, a second-degree murder convict is not eligible for parole for a minimum of 10 years. In the case of first-degree murder, 25 years is the minimum. Courts sitting in judgment of future cases may look to Manitoba’s Court of Appeal for guidance in interpreting the definition of forcible confinement in the context of physically and psychologically helpless children suffering from child abuse within a home.
That sounds like a lot of lawyer words. But in the end, it may mean that the life of Phoenix Sinclair will have some larger meaning, and perhaps even indirectly help society address the situation of similarly suffering children before they are killed.
My own view is that Phoenix Sinclair was indeed forcibly confined. What, realistically, could a five-year-old girl in her situation do?
Can she leave? Where would she go? Does an average five-year-old, let alone a massively abused one, have the maturity or experience to plot an escape from an abusive household? Even if it were possible for the child to escape in some way, would the possibility of getting caught and then suffering further and more escalated beatings possibly weigh on her mind?
Surely it must be that a young, abused child should be treated as a prisoner in this sort of criminal context. Abusive circumstances trigger a transformation from the normal reliance and dependency between child and caregiver into one of prisoner and prison-keeper.
In fact, the question of whether the child was confined to the basement seems besides the point. Surely, whether the child hides in a closet or a basement, he or she remains a prisoner as defined by the boundaries of the home. The entire home itself becomes the prison, and so long as the child remains within it there can be no safe haven. An inmate in a large penal institution is no less an inmate when he or she moves from his cell to the dining hall.
If the Manitoba Court of Appeal upholds the original conviction, it will send a warning to others that whatever else they might be doing that is criminal, when it leads to children becoming prisoners within their own homes, further criminal sanctions could be applied.
One of the core principles within our legal system is that each of us has the right to be free and possess human dignity. There is no way that Phoenix Sinclair lived her life with any degree of this kind of freedom or dignity. To suggest she somehow found it within the confines of the basement in her home is an argument that must fail.
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/.../20/david-asper-prisoner-in-her-own-home.aspx
Many are wondering why Manitoba’s Court of Appeal would “waste its time†last week on killers Samantha Kematch and Karl McKay. As far as the public is concerned, Kematch and McKay should probably feel lucky that the rule of law has kept the mob from imposing its own form of justice.
Let me offer my explanation. As it turns out, useful legal principles sometimes can be gleaned from close judicial scrutiny of even the most disturbing case.
Kematch and McKay are the two characters whom a jury found guilty of killing Kematch’s five-year-old daughter Phoenix Sinclair. Mere words can’t do justice in describing the sordid tale of abuse and neglect that befell this poor child. It’s beyond shocking.
In deciding guilt, the jury determined that the killing occurred while the two had forcibly confined the young victim in the basement of her home. Under the Criminal Code, this meant that the defendants fell in one of the categories that permit a finding of first-degree murder — the most serious crime in the Criminal Code. (Other categories of first-degree murder include killing a victim through planning and premeditation, killing a victim while committing sexual assault, terrorism, and killing a police officer.)
One of the arguments advanced in the appeal proceedings was that there had not been any forcible confinement, and therefore the first-degree murder conviction should not stand. In particular, the defence contended that the five-year-old victim was not forced to remain in the basement of her home but, rather, voluntarily sought refuge there from the abuse. According to this argument, the crime could only have been second-degree murder or manslaughter.
Such distinctions may seem arcane. But they reflect important moral decisions that Canadian legislators made in regard to the degrees of malice and evil that inform different types of murder. Moreover, the issue has real-life ramifications for defendants. A conviction for any of these crimes imposes a life sentence. However, a second-degree murder convict is not eligible for parole for a minimum of 10 years. In the case of first-degree murder, 25 years is the minimum. Courts sitting in judgment of future cases may look to Manitoba’s Court of Appeal for guidance in interpreting the definition of forcible confinement in the context of physically and psychologically helpless children suffering from child abuse within a home.
That sounds like a lot of lawyer words. But in the end, it may mean that the life of Phoenix Sinclair will have some larger meaning, and perhaps even indirectly help society address the situation of similarly suffering children before they are killed.
My own view is that Phoenix Sinclair was indeed forcibly confined. What, realistically, could a five-year-old girl in her situation do?
Can she leave? Where would she go? Does an average five-year-old, let alone a massively abused one, have the maturity or experience to plot an escape from an abusive household? Even if it were possible for the child to escape in some way, would the possibility of getting caught and then suffering further and more escalated beatings possibly weigh on her mind?
Surely it must be that a young, abused child should be treated as a prisoner in this sort of criminal context. Abusive circumstances trigger a transformation from the normal reliance and dependency between child and caregiver into one of prisoner and prison-keeper.
In fact, the question of whether the child was confined to the basement seems besides the point. Surely, whether the child hides in a closet or a basement, he or she remains a prisoner as defined by the boundaries of the home. The entire home itself becomes the prison, and so long as the child remains within it there can be no safe haven. An inmate in a large penal institution is no less an inmate when he or she moves from his cell to the dining hall.
If the Manitoba Court of Appeal upholds the original conviction, it will send a warning to others that whatever else they might be doing that is criminal, when it leads to children becoming prisoners within their own homes, further criminal sanctions could be applied.
One of the core principles within our legal system is that each of us has the right to be free and possess human dignity. There is no way that Phoenix Sinclair lived her life with any degree of this kind of freedom or dignity. To suggest she somehow found it within the confines of the basement in her home is an argument that must fail.
Stella
Ideal Thesis Subject
Defense lawyers are unbelievable
I have the same feelings, CB. It's beyond comprehension.
I don't think I could ever be a defense lawyer. I may need one some day, but on my terms only. I understand the need for defending the wrongly accused, but this is just pushing it. :argh:
{S} :crazy:
I have the same feelings, CB. It's beyond comprehension.
I don't think I could ever be a defense lawyer. I may need one some day, but on my terms only. I understand the need for defending the wrongly accused, but this is just pushing it. :argh:
{S} :crazy:
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